Mac versu PC,{snicker,snicker}

[Slick Fork]

Originally Posted by Ron99

Actually, I have to disagree. Macs can usually run the latest software and operating systems for many years. I have only upgraded machines every 4 to 6 years. And most of my older Macs have seen service for years after that with other people who didn't need to do anything fancy with them. Apple made the transition to intel processors almost 5 years ago and only over the last 6 months has software and the new version of the operating system been released that only supports the intel processor Macs. And with intel processors in all new macs you probably won't have to deal with that kind of transition for the foreseeable future.

Any Mac you buy today will happily run anything you need to for years to come. The only reason to upgrade a machine every year or two is if you are a hardcore gamer and need the latest greatest top speed components or you are an imaging pro who needs the fastest speed you can get for work efficiency.

I think that's sort of what I was trying to say. You can browse the web, look at pictures and type letters on any 10 year old PC running windows 98se or Windows XP.

If you're gaming or doing heavy photo editing you need something more current, be it mac or PC. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against Mac but I don't see them having this magical edge over a PC... certainly not to the tune of double the price

[Slick Fork]

Something else to consider when we are talking longevity. Upgrading RAM is usually the only thing you can do on a notebook other than the hard drive. If you look here at the apple store

http://store.apple.com/ca/memorymodel/ME_15_306_MBP

You'll see that the 8gig upgrade is almost $900

Check out memory express for PC RAM

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Product...)/Default.aspx

And voila half price RAM! as far as the crappy windows photo editing software goes, you're right on that one... however if you are planning on getting the bamboo pad anyways it comes with Photoshop Elements which I use and am VERY happy with it.

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Slick Fork

Something else to consider when we are talking longevity. Upgrading RAM is usually the only thing you can do on a notebook other than the hard drive. If you look here at the apple store

http://store.apple.com/ca/memorymodel/ME_15_306_MBP

You'll see that the 8gig upgrade is almost $900

Check out memory express for PC RAM

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Product...)/Default.aspx

And voila half price RAM! as far as the crappy windows photo editing software goes, you're right on that one... however if you are planning on getting the bamboo pad anyways it comes with Photoshop Elements which I use and am VERY happy with it.

But really only a dumba$$ buys RAM upgrades from Apple They have been overpriced forever. Macs use standard memory just like PCs and upgrading is pretty staraightforward so it shouldn't cost any more than a RAM upgrade for a PC. I have done all my own RAM upgrades for as long as I can remember. Upgrading the HD is a bit more work but I also just put a 500GB 7200 RPM drive in my Macbook Pro and it was pretty straightforward either then being delicate when opening the computer up to do it. Start by putting the new drive in an external enclosure, connect to the Mac, use disk utility to clone the drive, swap the new drive into the Macbook and the old into the enclosure, reboot the Mac that starts up flawlessly with the new drive and reformat the old drive in the enclosure for a nice portable 200GB drive.

Upgrading RAM is as simple as removing the bottom plate with a screwdriver and installing RAM modules. It's really easy.

[Ron99]

Also, if you are interested in photo editing go Mac. iPhoto is pretty good out off the box unless you want to do really advanced digital editing. Then the cost of software is the same whether you are on the Mac or PC.

[Doug]

Love the discussion guys. Thanks.

I did happen to see the photo shop with the bamboo pad I looked at yesterday. Was adding it into the equation. That again adds another $100 to the cost of the PC though. I think with the nice touch pad on the Mac,s I would be fine as is. Agreed its no bamboo pad though.

If the Toshiba could get away without additional warranty it be $899 with a pad and/or $999 with the crap cleaned out, unless I could do it myself. Once I get over that $1000 mark I head back to the Macs.

Of course the Toshiba has 4g ram and 500gb hard drive compared with the 2g and smaller hard drive on the Mac. Then again I need the 4g just to be able to run my F-Secure on the PC.

As for adding ram on a Mac, Future Shop charges just over $200 for 2 more on the Mac Book. The iMac, which is already a couple hundred more, has 4g already plus a 500gb hard drive.

[Slick Fork]

If the costs come close, get the one you like. Simple as that!

I didn't realize you could get away with buying regular PC components for upgrades. I always thought apple forced proprietary hardware on people. That's good to know and a point in apples favour.

I will disagree with you Ron though, on the headaches with the OS. The people that have problems are typically the ones that don't know to use an anti-virus program or just plain old common sense. Or, they're the ones that try to put the latest OS on last decades hardware. I've run Win95,98se,XP,Vista and now 7 and have never had problems that weren't of my own creation.

Apples security "edge" is because it's typically not worth the time for hackers to write viruses for when there are 100x as many PC's to target as there are Mac's. Not because it's a more secure OS. The comparison I would use is a nice mercedes sitting beside an old beater. The mercedes is 10x as likely to have the window smashed and the glovebox looted through, while you could leave the doors unlocked on the beater and no-one would touch it... doesn't make the beater more secure.

Back to Doug:

If you are photo editing, after the processor the 2 things that are CRITICAL are hard drive space and RAM. The average size of even my JPEG's is about 10mb each (saving in highest quality) and my raw files are about 15mb.

4GB's of RAM on a win7 equipped PC is lots, that's what I have on my desktop. More is better but 4 is just fine.

A 500 gig hard drive should do you for a while! I've got 750 and sometimes think about just putting stuff on there so it doesn't look so empty

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by Doug

I went back and looked at the Pro again. Its still there.

Why is it still there, you need to buy it already! You seem to want to go that route but you keep hesitating due to cost. I say screw the cost and go for it, I guarantee you wont regret buying a Mac

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Slick Fork

Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against Mac but I don't see them having this magical edge over a PC... certainly not to the tune of double the price

Oh yeah, just wanted to comment on this. The whole thing about Macs costing twice as much is really a myth. When you do price comparisons of apples to apples (sorry for the pun) comparing equally equipped Macs and PCs the prices are fairly competitive. the Macs sometimes may come out slightly more expensive but you then have to consider the included software as well as fewer headaches with the OS.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Ron99

Oh yeah, just wanted to comment on this. The whole thing about Macs costing twice as much is really a myth. When you do price comparisons of apples to apples (sorry for the pun) comparing equally equipped Macs and PCs the prices are fairly competitive. the Macs sometimes may come out slightly more expensive but you then have to consider the included software as well as fewer headaches with the OS.

actualy I was looking at macs when I bought this also.. the price is more competitive, well better than a couple years ago when they were double the price. the equivalant mac was 500 to 700 more than the windows machine last year, not in the market for anything this year so they might be a little closer, but apple isn't going to have a 25+% price drop in 12 months. price reason was one of the reasons I stayed with PC. um included software.. not much different.. little more on the PC if you don't like it it is simple to remove.. come on guys this isn't win 95 anymore. vista is stable as hell, I had less crashes with vista on a 6 month trip than my buddys new mac notebook. he had a wack of problems I didn't have any.. so I wish people would stop using data from win95 98/ ME to compare there macs to.

um elements doesn't come with with the bamboo touch and pen.. you need to move up to there 3or 400 buck pen only pad to get that . mind you costco sells elements 8 for 99ish.

another pain in the but is if you have had PCs and you own all kinds of software for PC are you going to run out and rebuy it all? oh you could run a windows boot on a mack machine, but hell for that matter get the cheeper toshiba and run a apple partition on it. I did that for a while.. oh while you at it put a BEOS partition (best OS ever made, but it was killed by a lack of advertising) and heck how about a linex partition.. you can do it all on a PC machine now that apple used PC chips. you could befor anyways using VM (virtual machine) I just don't see the reason to spend the extra money on the same thing. apple software like Itunes, ect is the worst thing ever made.. it forces you to do everything its way.. I tried it and I liked some of the stuff but then I found out it automaticly converted my MP3s to the Mu4 or what ever the aple extension is and deleted my MP3s with out asking me as apple wants to push its compression platform and fade out mp3. windoes has there own also as we all know but at least when it converts it doesn't delete your originals.

anyways mac vs PC, might as well started a thread skimmer vs skimmer less (need skimmers) , or T5 vs MH (we all know we need MH and T5s are only good to add blue tinting to your tank)


oh there is something I love about apple.. the PC mac comercials I think that is very good markiting even if it is misleading

Steve