The RED List of Fish, Inverts, and Corals

[Leah]

My vote would be for having fish police come to our homes, check out what you got
and decide if we should or should not get something!

[naesco]

Instead of posting this drivel, you, Marie and others should be coming to the defense of Myka and the efforts of others to develop a red and yellow list and applauding Myka for the efforts Myka has made to assist reefers.
There will be a red and yellow list on this board for the benefit of all reefs

Tell us, Marie is the powder brown tang nigricans still alive?

[Leah]

I am sorry just trying to lighten the air a little. But I just wonder if it really will help. Do
we not read any books. I bought books when I first started this and in all of them they
give ratings tank size basic do's and don'ts. Maybe we should encourage people to read
more. In so many things it is common sense. Yes we have gotton some crapo advice from LFS but I always try and research before I try. Is this not the point we should be trying to get across. Oh and just being pleasant to one another might be a nice idea!
Maybe we should do a book club pass along good ones. I have also bought many books
on fish so I can always check what I might try.

[my2rotties]

I have plenty of books but the contradict each other for info on the fish and so does any research I have done online. Then of course if you go to an LFS, the info is still different then what you really know. Some stores have had no problems with certain fish and others will not bring them in because they are hard to keep... It is tough to know what is right and wrong since there is so much info to be had, and even on the forums, people have different opinions altogether. It makes it tough for us newbies to know what to do.

Even when I ask I get heated comments and then I get private messages saying not to worry, just do this or that and I will be fine. It makes it very frustrating to do the right thing. I have been able to keep mandarins without issue, a copperband butterfly with not a single problem and cleaner wrasses are fine as well. Since I now know they are not an easy fish to keep, I would never advise anyone to get one. I don't want my luck or good fortune in keeping these fish to reflect upon someone that may not be so lucky in the end. I never give advise since I feel I do not know enough to be helpful...

Originally Posted by Leah

I am sorry just trying to lighten the air a little. But I just wonder if it really will help. Do
we not read any books. I bought books when I first started this and in all of them they
give ratings tank size basic do's and don'ts. Maybe we should encourage people to read
more. In so many things it is common sense. Yes we have gotton some crapo advice from LFS but I always try and research before I try. Is this not the point we should be trying to get across. Oh and just being pleasant to one another might be a nice idea!
Maybe we should do a book club pass along good ones. I have also bought many books
on fish so I can always check what I might try.

[3MTA3]

Originally Posted by naesco

Instead of posting this drivel, you, Marie and others should be coming to the defense of Myka and the efforts of others to develop a red and yellow list and applauding Myka for the efforts Myka has made to assist reefers.
There will be a red and yellow list on this board for the benefit of all reefs

Tell us, Marie is the powder brown tang nigricans still alive?

Naesco...Let me start by saying I have read your posts as well....we have enough people in this world telling us what we can and cant do that we dont need a Tang police force on a friendly and informative website.
Its all about how you go about "informing" someone. You dont tell them "OMG YOU CANT HAVE THAT IN YOUR TANK!!!!!!!!!
Most of us even from childhood rebel against such discrimination and authority and will do the exact opposite of what you are saying just to p**s you off when they post it!

As for your mothering words that we should thank or applaud Myka for her efforts??!!!! Are you hearing the same voices or are you related to her? Have you not read the drivel and condesending words she has posted to others ....come to think of it you have just posted the same type of comment towards Marie...wow.
Make a list have and fun doing it...it is great as a reference but JUST that..a reference. What you or I write is not the bible of reefkeeping and certainly not someone who doesnt practice what she preaches. This wasnt meant to attack Myka and make her feel guilty...just to open her eyes and the eyes of others as to how to respond appropriately to someone with questions and treat all members/vendors the same and accordingly.

Originally Posted by Madreefer

It's not about how many posts a person has. Who cares who this person is. It's obviously someone who has been around for a while and has setup a new membership just to do some venting and knock someone down a peg or two. It's great that Myka trys to help people but you have to practise what you preach. Myka has created a "guide to this and that" Thats cool and all but to put your name in front of it and call it yours, comes across that you think of yourself as a bit of a guru. Even though she might be very knowledgeable. Rather than putting up a red/green/yellow list it's best to put up a fish library with all the info about that certain species. It's alot of work but could help out alot in the end. This is pretty entertaining but lets not get toooo personal, would'nt want to push someone in to having to use meds.

This one just made me laugh . However you are right...as I said above it is how you go about it. Gold star for you Mr. Madreefer.

Originally Posted by nazerine

For once I agree with naesco. It's nice that you have an opinion 3MTA3, and I'm very sure some members will agree with you, and some will not. But I'm going to guess you're a member under another name here to be so familiar with post/thread history, so why hide behind a new forum name?

Dear Nazerine
I felt responding to you I would be a little more direct and personal. I will have to say your "guessing" is way off the mark. A little known fact is a person can peruse these boards and read all they want without EVER becoming a member. I think you would be surprised of the amount of people who read these forums but are not members nor have they ever posted.
I appreciate you trying to slueth out or direct that I am just another member but it was not until the latest posts of said person did I finally feel a need to "get involved" and become a member. One can only hold their tongue so long and in this case it was the needle that broke the camels back my friend.


I am not trying to hurt someones feelings or start fights...just simply trying to make sure people are treated properly as personally I think people who read these boards without becoming a member will NOT become a member as they choose not to be barraged by nay sayers and know-it-alls when they are asking simple things. Too many boards have these people and it only harms the forum not the person as less people register to become a part of the society. Not one person can say they know it all and what works for one may not work for another.
Remember this is a hobby....the happier we are the more apt we are to continue. I am sure you would not want to be part of a forum being made to feel stupid or dumb for the questions you ask.

I hope everyone can take from this what I had intended and use it in the future to treat people with the same respect you yourself would want.We all in the end will do what we like but having a fun and informative site is what we all need. Good Day

Bruce S

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

This is exactly why I said, this kind of thing can't get too extreme. It will only work as a guide that encourages and educates people or it will not work at all.

The idea (to me anyways) was to have a color coded list that let people know there may be some risks or difficulty involved with a species of fish they want to keep and what to look out for and do to give the fish a good chance at survival. This is why I though that suggesting an alternative was very important if your going to try to encourage someone not to buy a certain fish. The powder brown that keeps coming up is a great example--don't tell people not to buy the, just encourage them to get the right species (which is much prettier anyways )

I still believe this can work but as I said earlier, I also don't believe there are too many fish that can't be kept in home aquariums (of the commonly available species) if people are educated and have the right set up. Hopefully the "list" would just stop some impulse buys and people who were on the fence about a certain species.

I think it was all meant to be good but maybe started out a little extreme. Wording is everything if you want to people to listen, especially if you are trying to encourage them to NOT do something they want to do.

[Jason McK]

Chin Lee spends a great deal of time and energy maintaining the 'Fish Life Span' Polls
Christy Spent months creating a fish reference library
and none of it gets utilized to there potential. You say

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Doubt the mods would go for it but a new section for this would be the way to go.

But we have already spent exhaustive amounts of time gathering educational reference material so all canreef members can make informed purchases.

In my opinion (not the Mods of Canreef) a red list is rediculous. There will always be success stores and sad failure stories with advanced fish, corals, or inverts. So to say No you shouldn't keep X in an aquarium will never get collective agreement

[brizzo]

Originally Posted by 3MTA3

Dear Nazerine
I felt responding to you I would be a little more direct and personal. I will have to say your "guessing" is way off the mark. A little known fact is a person can peruse these boards and read all they want without EVER becoming a member. I think you would be surprised of the amount of people who read these forums but are not members nor have they ever posted.
I appreciate you trying to slueth out or direct that I am just another member but it was not until the latest posts of said person did I finally feel a need to "get involved" and become a member. One can only hold their tongue so long and in this case it was the needle that broke the camels back my friend.

And you're complaining about Myka making condescending comments? A simple explanation that you've never signed up before until now would have sufficed.

[Treebeard]

I think these list ideas are good, but should only be used as a guide and not the fish keeping bible.

And for an entertaining afternoon, I think it would be fun to take the list around to the local fish sellers and see how many creatures from the list are for sale, and ask the staff if they are easy to keep. I bought a nudibranch from a lfs and ended up returning it when I found out it would slowly starve. Of course the guy at the lfs said they would eat algae from my tank.

[3MTA3]

Originally Posted by nazerine

And you're complaining about Myka making condescending comments? A simple explanation that you've never signed up before until now would have sufficed.

Nazerine,

I apologize for being condescending and immature towards you. By no means was this called for and I hope you can accept my apology. I let my emotions get the best of me in what was a "heated debate"
Again I apologize.

Also I have read further in this thread and thank you for pointing out it was the STRAW that broke the camels back and not the needle

now off to address the reply by Myka and put this "debate" to rest. Actually I will simply just say this....Each is entitled to his/her own opinion....You know mine and I know yours. I will try and be less an "extremist" but am not one to be quiet for long when I see ignorance (even including my own Nazerine)

Nice to see things have settled down and people are actually using their words to explain themselves and not be taken inappropriately. GOLD STARS for everyone!!!!!! Especially Karazy... you in fact seem to be the sanest and mature person of us all including myself


B.S.