The RED List of Fish, Inverts, and Corals

[3MTA3]

Originally Posted by Myka

I figured we could all get together and write up a red list of fish, inverts, and corals that should be left in the ocean due to the fact that they are nearly impossible to keep in aquaria for one reason or another. Let's do a red list and a yellow list for those that are questionable. Please suggest animals and I can't think of all of them on my own right now.

The Red List - Leave these animals in the ocean. Do not buy them, do not encourage LFSs to carry them:

The Yellow List - For very experienced reef keepers only.



RED LIST:


~ Nudibranchs of any kind (have very specific diets and usually die short term)
~ Blue Ribbon Eel (reach 4' length, do not adapt well to captivity, high mortality possibly from Cyanide poisoning)
~ Wild Collected Bangaii Cardinal ("Critically Endangered Species", poor acclimation to captivity, buy captive bred instead)
~ Moorish Idol (rumoured 5% of the fish captured make long term survival, lack of appetite, and prone to disease)
~ Panther Grouper (reach 2' length, "Endangered Species")
~ Butterfly fish - Exquisite, Orange Face, Ornate (these species feed primarily or possibly even exclusively on coral polyps, will starve to death in captivity)

YELLOW LIST:

~ Copper Banded Butterfly (high long term mortality as most are caught using Cyanide)
~ Starfish (other than Brittle and Serpent, most are near impossible to keep long term)
~ Mandarin Dragonets (rarely eat packaged foods, most will only eat live copepods, most will die from starvation)
~ Cleaner Wrasse (specialized diet, poor long term survival)
~ Wild Caught True Percula Clownfish (poor shipping and acclimation rates, high susceptibility to Brookynella)
~ Large Angelfish - Regal, Queen, French, Blue Ring, Emperor (often caught with Cyanide, require specific diet of sponges, prone to disease, often refuse to eat in captivity)
~ Flame Scallops (heavy feeders, high long term mortality)
~ Non-photosynthetic Gorgonian corals (these are usually the brightly colored ones, heavy feeders, high long term mortality)
~ Bamboo sharks (some species reach 4' length)
~ Powder Blue and Powder Brown Tangs (high susceptibility to Ich and HITH, challenging species to keep healthy)

and another qoute from another thread

Originally Posted by Myka

Nice photos of some really nice corals as usual!

However, I have disheartened to see that you carry Banded Sharks (aka Bamboo Sharks), as well as Flying Gurnards. Both of which should be left in the ocean. Could you explain why you endorse the import of these animals?

and another

Originally Posted by Myka

J&L has a couple things on their New & Noteworthy page that I might be interested in picking up(would these be the red listed items that show?), but not worth it just on my own. If anyone is interested in adding to the order (asap as I'm leaving town on Friday) so we could get over $200 for the $25 air shipping I'd be game. I think if we order before Weds we could get Thursday morning arrival...but I'm not 100% sure. I will call tomorrow if there's some interest in this.

After reading through this forum for some time now one person has stood out above the rest and if no one else will say then I will.

Myka,
It is nice you feel you are being the savior to those who cannot be for themselves. But albeit a little hypocritical.
I read one of your threads awhile back where you stated you have a Tang in your 33G tank that you were having an algae problem with? I just read a post today where you told someone their 65G was to small for a tang? How do you justify this?
In another thread you ask a store to justify themselves....also making statement that 99% of reefers or salt water enthusiasts are not capable of housing these animals.

where do you get this 99% figure from?

Then you go off making this posted thread about "red" list and "yellow" list...and THEN post a "I wanna group buy from J&L" and lo and behold when you go to their "new and noteworthy*tm*(just in case they trademarked it lol) there are at least TWO items on your RED LIST.... Have they justified these imports to you? Have you asked them to justify it?
So I have to ask....what makes it okay for one and not another?

Also your reference to "cyanide caught" in most items on your list...Where do you get this reference? Have you personally seen these injustices? or is this just coming from what you read or hear or the voices? What qualifies you as the leading expert to make these statements as cut and dry facts/truths?

Your post's have a "smile to your face but snicker behind your back" feel to them. I am sorry but I haven't seen anything constructive in your posts. Just judgement. I think an apology to all the members you have talked down to and belittled in all your glory of knowing all would be appropriate. Maybe you should make a "Mykas guide to do as I preach, not as I do". I hope people can go back and see your prior posts to see how much of a hypocrite you are!

If you wanna save the world this certainly isnt the way to do it. If anyone is unsure of what they can and cant do I am sure they can research it and will find most topics are 6 of one half a dozen of another. Opinions are like rearends...everyone has one. Please add me to your red list as I am sure to be extinct soon or at least gone from this forum as free speech seems to actually come with a cost nowadays.

*signed*
B.S.
Cheers

[Madreefer]

Hmmm...... is this what you call deja vu? These "lists" do cause alot of debates. Everyone has such different opinions in this hobby but this topic seems to turn out to be one of the nastiest. I like the extra butter on my popcorn

[JDigital]

Wow.......

[Haloreef]

3MTA3
I think you may be my new Hero!

[fishytime]

Live from western Canada.....and for the millions reading around the world..... lllllllets get ready to rumbllllllllllllllllllllllllle!

[Treebeard]

Whoever has the remote, please hit the pause button. I need to pee first!

[marie]

3MTA3 said everything better then I could of
To make up a list one should only go by their own experiences everything else is hearsay. We have no idea how other people look after their livestock and its always easier to blame a demise on someone else (even so called experts mess up at the fishes expense once in a while).
From my own experience foxfaces should head the yellow list, I went through 3 of them before I could get one that lived in my system and yet everyone has one. To me mandarins are easy and achilles tangs have special needs but aren't impossible

[my2rotties]

Originally Posted by fishytime

Live from western Canada.....and for the millions reading around the world..... lllllllets get ready to rumbllllllllllllllllllllllllle!

[Snaz]

Regardless of skill level there are some species that are not meant for an aqaurium. The panther grouper being a good choice, it is endangered and grows to 2 feet+

Having a list of these fish is a good idea, whether you choose to follow the list is your choice.

If you do ignore such a red list you will go to Fish hell and thousands of guppies of swordfish will torment you forevermore.

[subman]

Originally Posted by Snaz

Regardless of skill level there are some species that are not meant for an aqaurium. The panther grouper being a good choice, it is endangered and grows to 2 feet+

Having a list of these fish is a good idea, whether you choose to follow the list is your choice.

If you do ignore such a red list you will go to Fish hell and thousands of guppies of swordfish will torment you forevermore.

Yeah I have a panther it was small, cheap, and beautiful (always a bad combination) I bought it on a whim and the LFS said no worries its a great fish! It is a great fish but....

I think the point of this list is just people with experience making recommendations. These are recommendations so take it or leave it this isn't changing the worlds fish laws!

I have seen lately a lot of really nasty comment to other members who have 2 tangs in a 50 or some one who bought a mandarin in a new tank and so on. It surprises me that people are so hard on new hobbyists. We all make and have made mistakes and we come here to learn and share our success and failures so others can learn as well.

Just my two cents I'm no expert at anything but I do like pretending!