Making a case as to why NOT to bring home a Regal angel

[my2rotties]

I rescued a pitbull from a dog fighting ring many years ago. She was beaten and starved... brought her home and she was terrified of everything in my house. She died of old age in 2007. Never had one problem with her, but I was patient and diligent with her. I have rescued two male rotties both on death row at the pound, starved and abandoned. Beautiful wonderful boys, thrown away. I lost Brodie three years ago to cancer, and Sabre just last fall to cancer. To take these dogs into my home to heal broken hearts was one of the best things I have ever done. I will do it again when there is another I see in need. I have a stafford now which is banned in Ontario because people think they are bad dogs... I do a lot of work fighting BSL and know many dogs come to the SPCA from Ontario. I used to train dogs and I find smaller breeds are the worst b=for biting. But retrievers are always thought to be angelic and you are right about the bite statistics. When I lived in Calgary I would cringe when I saw a pitbull or rottie on the front page of the paper... only those breeds make front page when there are how many bites in the city of Calgary every year?

Punish the deed not the breed. People buy these dogs and they need more care then a marine aquarium to be honest. They cannot be isolated and shoved in a kennel or pen in the back yard. They need a lot of exercise and are smarter them most people...

I see a stupid dog, the stupid owner is not too far away... dogs are amirror imagies of their owners... mine are awesome and well behaved, and I get compliments on how nice and peaceful they are...

Originally Posted by levi1803

funny how they are painted as mean dogs, they are not, they are strong dogs that need a proper owner that's all, I work for the humane society and have seen very few pit bulls that are mean, and trust me, I have seen lots of supposedly "nice" dogs that are mean because they have a**holes for owners. Funny stat is that the most bites from a dog in Canada are from Golden Retrievers.

[my2rotties]

Thanks Kevin... I am not afraid to ask questions... I just need to add boxing gloves and a first aid kit with the flame suit next time.

Originally Posted by Red Coral Aquariums

Well said.

Don't stop asking questions and don't stop expecting answers you don't want to hear.
How many new people have been influenced by your questions and by the answers given? If one aquatic life has been influenced positively. You deserve Congratulations.
Kevin

[my2rotties]

BLESS YOU!!! I posted about this very same thing awhile back when I was struggling with the losses of my angels. I narrowed out cyanide poisoning, but was told it was bacterial... then I found a post of RC speaking of flukes. I treated me entire system and I could see the flukes coming off of all my fish. Sadly my last angel was too far gone to save and he died. I did the best I could with the info I could find. I was asking questions when the first angel died, and could find no answers, then the second went, and I started finding info... I did my best for the third and really hoped he would make.

I had never heard of flukes or ever had been advised about them when I started looking for answers. It was too late for my fish but have learned a great deal. I had an angel from an LFS really try to help to get me through this whole thing, but he wants to be unnamed.

I will never add a fish to my system without using Praziquantal or PraziPro. I just wish I knew this before the losses.

Thanks for the insight...

Originally Posted by OceanicCorals

Most large angels are misdiagnosed IMO. The bacterial disease is secondary to the actual culprit, which is flukes. These flukes are very common on larger angelfish and it appears that the regals are more prone to them then the others.

These flukes are tranparent and difficult to see. Generally they attack the gills then start to bombard the entire fish. You can spot them in the eyes as being a little piece of white opaque flesh. The flukes causes the fish to stop eating and flash and scrape themselves on anything sharp to get rid of this pest.

The injury to the flashing is what causes inflammation and secondary bacterial infection. Treating the fish with antibacteria does not destroy the flukes and sooner or later the fish dies from not eating and wastes away. Truly a sad sight to see such a maginificent creature die like that.

My best advise is to quarintine all you fish and treat all angelfish with Praziquantal or PraziPro. Immerse your angel in freshwater bath with a high concentration of PraziPro. I do not condone or recommend a specific dosage but make sure that your PH is equivelant to the tank water's PH and that you are running an air stone. I usually dip the fish for about 20-30 minutes and repeat this process once a day until the flukes are gone.

You will see the flukes begin to lose hold on the fish after a few minutes. Shorter if you are using a higher dosage of PraziPro. They will appear as oval shaped and transparent. Usually, there are about a couple of dozens that will immediately begin to die off. If you find that a couple of fluke are not fully detaching themselves off of the fish; I use a small plastic pippette that is used from water testing and gently scrape the flukes off of the fish. At this time, the fish is usually very stressed and will be easily scared, so be gentle and patient. I believe that a fish can feel your energy just as a dog can feel it as well.

At this time I also use methelyne blue to help with the secondary infection. Methelyne blue is an antiseptic and will reduce the oxygen levels in the bath; this is why I suggest using an air stone in the bath; to combat the loss of oxygen from MB. I would recommend using a variable air pump so that you can control the amount of air bubbles. The more air bubbles the more turbulent the bath water will be and this in turn causes the fish to become more stressed. Find a happy medium and WATCh your fish carefully. If it begins to lay down on it's side; stop the bath. Try it again the next day. The main thing is to not stress the fish and DO NOT put it back into it's original tank as there could be other flukes in the water column waiting to attach themselves to the fish when you place it back.

Once the flukes are cleared the fish you will immediately see an improvement and hopefully it will take to eating right away. Coax it with some clams in a half shell as they are very finicky eaters; but once eating they can be fed anything and everything.

I have imported many angelfish and have lost many as well unfortunately. I too have misdiagnosed and mistreated and fish only to have it die on me eventually. Regals are beautiful animals and they are very difficult to keep. If your set up is only a few months old; I would not recommend you putting it in your system and if you do, QUARINTINE even if it's been at your LFS for some time.


I hope this helps you on your search to the answer of why Regals are so hard to keep.

Ian.

[es355lucille]

Hi Diana, to tell you the truth I don't really say much on the forum as I have seen this on a number of occasions and I don’t find it very constructive or positive for anyone new to the hobby. Most of us new to the hobby feel dumb enough at times without it being splattered on the forum.

I have been to Diana & Frank’s and seen all their wonderful pets (baby’s) including the 260g reef that I find just amazing. My wife and I were staring in awe when Diana fed the puffer fish by hand and rubbed his belly! Diana really cares for her pets.

Are we all guilty for bringing fish home on a whim? Without research? Rescue? Someone else might buy her? Hell Ya!!......my wife and I looked at each other in the truck on the way home from the LFS after we bought a Fairy Wrasse.........and I said “do we know what it eats?”........we laughed at the time, but we were two researchers on the internet once we reached home. Does that happen now? No it does not. Why? Because as humans we learn by experience......not always by everything you read or are told. The learning curve for this hobby is pretty much vertical in the beggining .....I think some people that have been at this for a while have forgotten that as it is second nature to them now.

I know some very experienced people here are annoyed at some of us newer to the hobby. But understand that we will all learn different things at different rates at different times......and yes we will all make mistakes........and yes we will all lose that fish we loved.

Please be tolerant of each other. I feel like I don’t know much at all when I come here with the likes of the rest of you......but it is a really great forum, with a lot of really great knowledgeable people. I really enjoy this place for the most part.

Thanks for understanding. Brad

Originally Posted by my2rotties

If my questions benefit my fish I have and the ones in the future it was well worth the trouble and heat. I just worry about other people that are afraid to ask questions because of the flaming and negativity... They could be having problems and are afraid to seek the help that they really need.

[TJSlayer]

Well it's great to see the tone of posts changing and for the better, Good luck with your decision

I'd love to see some new pictues of your tank as well!

[naesco]

Originally Posted by es355lucille

Hi Diana, to tell you the truth I don't really say much on the forum as I have seen this on a number of occasions and I don’t find it very constructive or positive for anyone new to the hobby. Most of us new to the hobby feel dumb enough at times without it being splattered on the forum.

I have been to Diana & Frank’s and seen all their wonderful pets (baby’s) including the 260g reef that I find just amazing. My wife and I were staring in awe when Diana fed the puffer fish by hand and rubbed his belly! Diana really cares for her pets.

Are we all guilty for bringing fish home on a whim? Without research? Rescue? Someone else might buy her? Hell Ya!!......my wife and I looked at each other in the truck on the way home from the LFS after we bought a Fairy Wrasse.........and I said “do we know what it eats?”........we laughed at the time, but we were two researchers on the internet once we reached home. Does that happen now? No it does not. Why? Because as humans we learn by experience......not always by everything you read or are told. The learning curve for this hobby is pretty much vertical in the beggining .....I think some people that have been at this for a while have forgotten that as it is second nature to them now.

I know some very experienced people here are annoyed at some of us newer to the hobby. But understand that we will all learn different things at different rates at different times......and yes we will all make mistakes........and yes we will all lose that fish we loved.

Please be tolerant of each other. I feel like I don’t know much at all when I come here with the likes of the rest of you......but it is a really great forum, with a lot of really great knowledgeable people. I really enjoy this place for the most part.

Thanks for understanding. Brad

Hey, if a reefer needs some help with a problem or needs advice and your a bit shy about asking online, Private Message someone who you think might have experience with the issue or the species.
To PM you just click on the reefers name and the PM pops up and you are off and away.
Most people would be flattered that you asked them.

[Bugsy]

[quote=es355lucille;401818]Hi Diana, to tell you the truth I don't really say much on the forum as I have seen this on a number of occasions and I don’t find it very constructive or positive for anyone new to the hobby. Most of us new to the hobby feel dumb enough at times without it being splattered on the forum.

**I feel the same way and do very little posting questions and lots of reading.

bugsy...

[24storm]

Originally Posted by TJSlayer

Well it's great to see the tone of posts changing and for the better, Good luck with your decision

I'd love to see some new pictues of your tank as well!

The captain who righted the ship!!! Good on you for changing the tone of this thread.

Keith

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by es355lucille

Hi Diana, to tell you the truth I don't really say much on the forum as I have seen this on a number of occasions and I don’t find it very constructive or positive for anyone new to the hobby. Most of us new to the hobby feel dumb enough at times without it being splattered on the forum.

I have been to Diana & Frank’s and seen all their wonderful pets (baby’s) including the 260g reef that I find just amazing. My wife and I were staring in awe when Diana fed the puffer fish by hand and rubbed his belly! Diana really cares for her pets.

Are we all guilty for bringing fish home on a whim? Without research? Rescue? Someone else might buy her? Hell Ya!!......my wife and I looked at each other in the truck on the way home from the LFS after we bought a Fairy Wrasse.........and I said “do we know what it eats?”........we laughed at the time, but we were two researchers on the internet once we reached home. Does that happen now? No it does not. Why? Because as humans we learn by experience......not always by everything you read or are told. The learning curve for this hobby is pretty much vertical in the beggining .....I think some people that have been at this for a while have forgotten that as it is second nature to them now.

I know some very experienced people here are annoyed at some of us newer to the hobby. But understand that we will all learn different things at different rates at different times......and yes we will all make mistakes........and yes we will all lose that fish we loved.

Please be tolerant of each other. I feel like I don’t know much at all when I come here with the likes of the rest of you......but it is a really great forum, with a lot of really great knowledgeable people. I really enjoy this place for the most part.

Thanks for understanding. Brad

Its not about being "****ed" or annoyed at new reefers. I don't think many of the experienced reefers here feel that way for asking questions. I do think they get annoyed when their advice is ignored. In this case its not really ignored but she has already been given some great advice and actually said she was done with keeping angels and actually I believe it was just a few weeks back (or less) that she had said shes not adding any fish for a while. That tank is very packed in my opinion.

So I think if people are taking the time to help others but the same questions keep coming up and advice is ignored, they have a right to get annoyed and express this the same way this poster constantly justifies everything by saying she loves her fish.

If you go back and read all the different threads about the problem puffer, death of the dogface, problems with tangs, death of the angels, anemone, ect. you will understand where people are coming from. The tank is a bit of an experiment IMO. Its also very young for so many fish. Its also not a massive tank...ect. ect.

The common response in every thread is about how much she loves the fish and does everything in her power to keep them happy and healthy. I don't doubt this one bit but its a bit of a contradiction to keep adding livestock and buying these fish if you feel that way. Saying one thing but doing differently will annoy some people. Doesn't really annoy me but leads me to believe this whole thing is a real struggle for her. And I do sympathize. But at some point for the sake of the livestock it needs to stop. Heck I have a list of about 20 more fish I would like to keep but I know I am pushing it already or that some are just not compatible with aquarium life.

I recently had an escalating problem between two tangs and had to remove one...It has been very upsetting but these things have to be done. I couldn't wait until one was dead...You have to make choices and I think most people responding just thought this was done in that last thread when the angels died.

I have to say I was pretty surprised to find another thread about this so soon.

I wish Diana the BEST of luck but do think they need to choose a direction for this tank

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by naesco

Hey, if a reefer needs some help with a problem or needs advice and your a bit shy about asking online, Private Message someone who you think might have experience with the issue or the species.
To PM you just click on the reefers name and the PM pops up and you are off and away.
Most people would be flattered that you asked them.

This is true as well...I have received numerous PMs about Puffers over the years