WHAT IS A CORPORATION?

[Reef_Geek]

money enables society

love it or hate it, it is a thing that is inert. It is neither good nor bad. It enables civilizations to advance in complexity for better or worse.

Here's a prize winning book about it, if you seek truth.

Ascent of Money. Ferguson, Niall.

http://www.niallferguson.com/publica...scent-of-money

[ReefHero]

Originally Posted by Reef_Geek

money enables society

love it or hate it, it is a thing that is inert. It is neither good nor bad. It enables civilizations to advance in complexity for better or worse.

Here's a prize winning book about it, if you seek truth.

Ascent of Money. Ferguson, Niall.

http://www.niallferguson.com/publica...scent-of-money

Personally, I hate it when people talk about money as if it can think and make decisions.....money is nothing more than a possession. It is whatever we (as people) want it to be. Money is only worth what we make it.
To quote the NIN...."money is not one to choose."
We (as society) have made money the highest possession available.....we did that! If money could think then I'm sure it would value itself on par with the value of the paper it is printed on.... In all fairness, would it be wrong for a person to value money in the same regard....I would say no because in a way everyone already does value money differently....some save it, others spend it....
I try not to think about it too much.....sad really, that a piece of paper marked $5 is **** poor but yet the same one with different colours marked $1000 would have people killing each other over. We made it this way and now we live this way.

[Reef_Geek]

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Yes, there are definitely good and bad corporations, just as there are individuals. And remember corps are just groups of one or more people.

I will say, too, that in my career, I worked for two large corporations (multi billion) and one smaller one. The two larger ones were absolutely clean with their ethics and practices (employees were considered as their #1 asset, customers #2), and I was very proud to be a part of them. The smaller one, though, did have a few questionable practices (not illegal) that I did not like, and I did leave them because of that.

+1

I have worked for private businesses and public companies. With public companies, there is requirement to follow SEC regulations so that they are accountable to shareholders. Everything is subject to routinely scheduled internal & external audits to ensure that checks and balances (business controls) exist to protect compliance, and audits ensures the company is doing what it said it would do. Private companies, on the other hand, are (mostly) only accountable to its owners, and there is no board of directors that second guess the president on behalf of the shareholders. Only when private businesses come into issues with laws... do they then get investigated. This is over simplified... yes. As a company gets bigger and hits certain size thresholds set by regulation, they must then take on more compliance practices.

Given the choice, I like working for public companies, and specifically, those that show strong "corporate social responsibility" (there are entire courses in business schools on this topic)...

Originally Posted by ReefHero

Personally, I hate it when people talk about money as if it can think and make decisions.....money is nothing more than a possession. It is whatever we (as people) want it to be. Money is only worth what we make it.
To quote the NIN...."money is not one to choose."
We (as society) have made money the highest possession available.....we did that! If money could think then I'm sure it would value itself on par with the value of the paper it is printed on.... In all fairness, would it be wrong for a person to value money in the same regard....I would say no because in a way everyone already does value money differently....some save it, others spend it....
I try not to think about it too much.....sad really, that a piece of paper marked $5 is **** poor but yet the same one with different colours marked $1000 would have people killing each other over. We made it this way and now we live this way.

This reminds me of a saying. Money doesn't change a person... it exaggerates who they are. It is like all those horror stories of sudden millionaire lotto winners that fall victim to bad temptations. If a person is giving and kind, they will have more of it to give/ a charity to manage. If a person is irresponsible with money then there's more of it to be irresponsible with. If a person likes to save and invest money, then the person has more of it to work with. etc etc

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Real estate is generally a good asset (does go up and down), but you have to live somewhere, and rent is for sure wasted. I have bought and sold many homes over the years. Some for less than what I bought them for (80's was a tough time), too. But I did learn that with real estate, you don't get ahead with your sells, but with your buys. It is much easier to get a good buy (with good market research) than a good sell (not up to you, but the buyers). And of course it is all about location, location, location.

This is very good advice. Thanks. I only have my current first home... and I keep looking back, I can't help but keep thinking how lucky I got with the deal that I got, and a lot of it was in timing... looking for that one posting that had been on the market for months, been conceding on the asking price, and facing tenant vacancy and a winter (not realty season) around the corner.

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

But I do draw the line with borrowing money for a car. I can say that I never did that. Although, to be fair, interest rates were much higher many years ago. Problem with a car, as with boats, LED lights, etc, is they depreciate rapidly, and when you are ready to buy another one, you are no further ahead. Instead, I initially bought junkers, and amazingly, I actually sold some for what I bought them for and more. Later, when I finally had some money, I did buy new, but more because of vanity, and not smart personal finance.

Yup, rates for financing cars wouldn't be this low if it wasn't for the economic downturn. The other thing to watch out for... is the total price of the car. Some deals are 0% or $1000 off... so you have to do the math in time-value of money and figure out if they are just jacking up the price on the 0% deal.

You are right though, cars are depreciating assets. The best deals taught in personal finance books are those cars that are used but only a few years old. The reward is in having a car and no payments, while it still runs. But then again, some times you have to have a nice car. I do have a problem with cars... I am on my forth one in 12 years. Guilty. At the end of the day, it's not about not-enjoying your money, it's about living within our own means. If I made $300K (I wish) a year, it would be within my means to lease two brand new Porsches every 2 years... even if not the most efficient allocation of assets...

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

And don't run with the herd...

this is one of the best investment advice I ever received... always think of the contrarian perspective.

[Slick Fork]

I think one thing people often overlook, is the power of consumers and the role they play in influencing the decision of corporations.

As an example, how often do people rush out and buy the cheap, made in china crap instead of something built locally? Than they wonder why North American manufacturing outsources and disappears and I don't think a lot of the social justice types really understand the cause and effect of it.

I know a person who is extraordinarily vocal about the need for higher wages for workers and the tragedy of corporate greed which outsources jobs. Yet this person shops at Wal-Mart and doesn't consider where the goods they purchase come from. When I asked why, they simply responded they were tired of paying "too much". They had no answer when asked why corporations should pay their workers more when people won't pay for North American made products.

It's easy to blame big business, but if they could make profits selling Canadian made items to Canadians, jobs wouldn't be outsourced.

[Slick Fork]

Also wanted to mention that it's really nice that a topic that could be so divisive has NOT degenerated into a name calling fest and that everyone is, instead, having a thoughtful civilised discussion.

Which I believe was the goal of the OP in the first place!

[mike31154]

There's a ski run at Revelstoke Mountain Resort named 'Kill The Banker'. It's under the main gondola lift going up the mountain & I've often seen the odd track on it, but seldom actually see a breathing human being coming down. I like that run, but I'm not a banker, so I'll pass.

[jorjef]

Do any of you guys have a solar powered laser beam guitar?

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Slick Fork

Also wanted to mention that it's really nice that a topic that could be so divisive has NOT degenerated into a name calling fest and that everyone is, instead, having a thoughtful civilized discussion.

Surprised the he11 out of me!!

[MitchM]

There's a saying that when you take out a $500 thousand loan, it is your problem. If you take out a $500 million loan it is the bank's problem.

I think where this global money printing issue is going to wind up is going to be a balance between those that hold the money - (individuals, corporations or countries) - and how much social unrest they are willing (or forced) to endure.
There have been a number of governments that have fallen over this issue already and limits placed on bank withdrawals in order to prevent bank runs.
The country of Cyprus recently prevented a run on their banks.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...n-banks-crisis
Imagine having a savings account of more than 100,000 Euros suddenly worth 40% less the next day!
People, corporations or countries that have loaned out money in order to benefit themselves in increased production and thereby revenue for themselves are simply going to have to forgive those loans.
The level of social unrest will determine how much they will have to forgive.
The level of social unrest is the unpredictable part.

What is Greece's youth unemployment rate now, > 55%? How long do you think unemployed youth are going to be quiet for, before they enact change and elect in a government that promises them whatever it takes to get into power?
Governments and banks are shifting money around and enacting laws in order to minimize their losses right now.
I think this will take a number of years to play out, but I don't think there is any other outcome possible.

...and RuGlu6, you may just be thankful one day that you DO have to "work for the man", when your taxes are paying for the manpower it takes to protect whatever is it that you presently own.

We live in a very safe country. I am thankful for that.