Might have to eat my own words re: quarantine

[reefme]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Ya, it looks like I didn't get the meds in time. Won't happen again, I've ordered lots for future treatment/quarantine

May I ask which medications are you using?

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by reefme

May I ask which medications are you using?

chloroquine phosphate..

[reefwars]

brad i think you have a great idea build a fishlist and qt all at once and add at once, sorry to hear about all this you can tell its very stressful and emotional for you.

glad to hear the pup is on the mend its sad seeing your little buddy not well

cheers man im hoping the best for you

[reefme]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

chloroquine phosphate..

Where are you buying this?

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by reefme

Where are you buying this?

In the US. Big bucks, and I bought enough to treat the pacific ocean

[reefme]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

In the US. Big bucks, and I bought enough to treat the pacific ocean

Can you share me some. Just in case my Atlantic ocean crash on me. I only know how to use paypal.

[TimT]

Hi Mindy,

Originally Posted by Myka

Where do you get the info that Formalin is worse for fish than copper?

Compare the health effects of Formalin(burns, blindness etc) to the health effects of copper(irritation etc). Here is some info from the MSDS for 37% formalin.

ACUTE HEALTH EFFECTS

Swallowed:

Toxic if swallowed.

Will cause burns to the mouth, mucous membranes, throat, oesophagus and stomach. If sufficient quantities are ingested (swallowed) death may occur.

The methanol stabilizer in solutions is a cause of visual impairment and possible permanent blindness.



Eye:

Will cause burns to the eyes with effects including: Pain, tearing, conjunctivitis and if duration of exposure is long enough, blindness will occur.



Skin:

Toxic by skin contact.

Will cause burns to the skin, with effects including; Redness, blistering, localised pain and dermatitis.

The material is capable of causing allergic skin reactions and may cause skin sensitisation. Toxic effects may result from skin absorption..



Inhaled:

Toxic if inhaled.

Will cause severe irritation to the nose, throat and respiratory system with effects including: Dizziness, headache, in-coordination, chest pains, coughing, respiratory paralysis and or failure.




It only takes 60 to 90ml of it ingested to kill a human.

When you do a Formalin bath on a fish you are burning off the protective slime layer, burning it's eyes, mouth, gills, throat and stomach.

With a FW bath non of these things occur.

With a copper treatment the fish is exposed to 0.26mg/l of ionic copper. Fish can survive exposures over 0.45mg/l of ionic copper.

Something else to consider is that 75% of the fish in this hobby have been cyanided when caught... so their lives are already shortened considerably. Exposing them to a little copper for a short time is not going to do to much, a lot less than the damage inflicted by the parasites. The problem with copper is that people don't generally have a reliable way of testing the concentration so they over/under dose. Sadly the fish usually dies either way.

Cheers,
Tim

[Myka]

Tim,

Hoomans are different than fishies, however in both copper damages liver and kidneys. In fish it also damages their gills and sense of smell which can implicate breeding behaviors. In hoomans, copper is linked to Alzheimer's Disease as well as liver damage (cirrhosis).

Dwarf Angelfish are particularly sensitive to copper treatment, [Here's a study] as are scaleless fish, some large Angelfish, and some Tangs.

Copper also binds with carbonates and precipitates out of the water column. If the pH drops (as is common for QTs) the precipitate will redissolve and cause a spike in copper large enough to be lethal. Copper is not compatible with Prime or AmQuel as those products will convert Cu+2 to Cu+ which is much more toxic and will often be lethal. Copper also stresses the fishes' systems enough that it can make the fish susceptible to other diseases.

With formalin, the fish is only exposed for a short time (45 to 60 minutes). Formalin is compatible with AmQuel and Prime, although the addition of ammonia detoxifiers are not needed in a bath anyway. The toxicity of formalin doesn't change in reaction to pH (or alkalinity). There is a much bigger difference between the treatment range and the LC-50 of Formalin in comparison to copper. The LC-50 of formalin is many times the concentration of typical baths. [Here's a study]

Formalin is also approved by the FDA to use as treatment for parasites on food fish, where copper is not. [FDA approved drugs]

I've read a lot of studies on copper and formalin, and I have not come to my conclusions uneducated.

Originally Posted by TimT

Something else to consider is that 75% of the fish in this hobby have been cyanided when caught...

Woah. That's quite the statement. I doubt you could support this statement with evidence...? How do you come to this conclusion?