Who's shutting down the Tank for Earth Hour Saturday

[StirCrazy]

traditionaly I turn on every light, TV, computer, and oven in the house during this. I think this year I will go out and weld for an hour also. 50amps of 220 for an hour should cancle out a whole town of lights

concidering that lights for one hour amounts to squat this is a joke of a campain.

A city cannot leagaly turn out the streat lights as was mentiond, just thing what would happen if some one got hit by a car or something in a normaly lighted intersection.

Steve

[Tom R]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

Earth hour is good if it promotes awareness. Can't argue there.

There are people though who think that's all there is to it is shutting the lights off for an hour "helps." And no, it doesn't. What helps is finding a way to change habits so that the energy footprint can be reduced permanently.

So.. um .. no, I can't shut my tanks off for an hour. That's a life support issue.. but I'm always thinking about ways I can achieve the same results using less energy consumption, and when opportunities present themselves, I make the appropriate changes. I hope this counts for something.

I agree. We all need to look beyond price when we buy things.

For example something we all use in our hobby is a return pump. A return pump runs 24/7/365 right then consider these products for the job.

An Amp Master 3000 from Dolphin Pumps moves 3600 GPH while drawing 96 watts of electricity.

While the ever popular Reeflo Dart movers 3600 GPH while drawing 160 watts of electricity.

We should always include energy usage as a major criteria when buying an automobile, a refrigerator, a Big Screen TV or anything else we buy.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Tom R

I agree. We all need to look beyond price when we buy things.

For example something we all use in our hobby is a return pump. A return pump runs 24/7/365 right then consider these products for the job.

An Amp Master 3000 from Dolphin Pumps moves 3600 GPH while drawing 96 watts of electricity.

While the ever popular Reeflo Dart movers 3600 GPH while drawing 160 watts of electricity.

We should always include energy usage as a major criteria when buying an automobile, a refrigerator, a Big Screen TV or anything else we buy.

I think looking beyond price is a load of *&^*&

yes it is a valid statment given the two objects are equal in every other way, but unless there is something very compelling besides energy use I will pick the cheeper object every time.

the example you gave below the reeflo is the one I would pic despite the increased rating, as it actualy uses less than it states, but that asside the amp master is loud, prone to seal leakage and generaly a lower quality pump.

as for TV's well there is a whole different game. whats the resolution and the quality at that resolution.. hows the color quality, contrast, ect.. I would pick a TV that uses 10X the power if it was betting in the other aspects. now if they were the same quality and one used less energy.. I would pick the cheeper one. now if price was also the same I would pick the one that uses less power.

Steve

[lockrookie]

we should start a save the sheeps wool for an hour day and walk around nekkid in respect for all those sheep who go nekkid for us to have those warm sweaters on to reduce the heat to be energy efficient

[BlueAbyss]

Originally Posted by Parker

It amazes me how people take things so literal. Earthday is meant to promote awareness and to drive home the fact that one person can make a difference. Simply turning off your lights for an hour isn't going to ammount to much in the grand scheme of things, we all know that. The point is not to turn off your lights but to promote thoughtful discussion and self examination. If people choose to turn off the lights then great thanks for taking the time to at least think about it, it's step in the right direction if only a small one.

Bingo. Couldn't have said it with any more truth...

*CAUTION: RANT FOLLOWS* I personally have a huge problem with people considering aluminum cans to be 'disposable'. I believe it was Buckminster Fuller who thought that with all the materials we had pulled out of the earth by the '70s, we should be entirely self sufficient as far as needing materials, since almost everything is recyclable (and aluminum pretty much tops the list of easily recyclable materials). And yet, here we are. I suppose everything is disposable, really... including our own planet.

I wonder when the cockroaches will grow intelligence. Then we're really done for. *END RANT*

Anyhow, as far as shutting the lights off I'll still be at work at that time and my electricity is relatively low impact hydroelectric power. I actually moved a step in the wrong direction by switching to CFLs, since they contain toxic mercury where the incandescents I had before didn't. Saved some electricity though, so more can go to the US where they depend on oil generating stations... so maybe I'm actually status quo after all. Every little bit helps.

PS: OH YEAH, tank not just lights... yup, no way. My tank uses a total maximum (with heater and lights on) of 210W. I've seen incandescent light bulbs larger than that.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

traditionaly I turn on every light, TV, computer, and oven in the house during this. I think this year I will go out and weld for an hour also. 50amps of 220 for an hour should cancle out a whole town of lights

concidering that lights for one hour amounts to squat this is a joke of a campain.

A city cannot leagaly turn out the streat lights as was mentiond, just thing what would happen if some one got hit by a car or something in a normaly lighted intersection.

Steve

+1 and I think I'll kick the local enviro nazi in the nads while I'm at it.

Keep sipping the coolaid.

[wolf_bluejay]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

I think looking beyond price is a load of *&^*&

yes it is a valid statment given the two objects are equal in every other way, but unless there is something very compelling besides energy use I will pick the cheeper object every time.

the example you gave below the reeflo is the one I would pic despite the increased rating, as it actualy uses less than it states, but that asside the amp master is loud, prone to seal leakage and generaly a lower quality pump.

as for TV's well there is a whole different game. whats the resolution and the quality at that resolution.. hows the color quality, contrast, ect.. I would pick a TV that uses 10X the power if it was betting in the other aspects. now if they were the same quality and one used less energy.. I would pick the cheeper one. now if price was also the same I would pick the one that uses less power.

Steve

Grumble, grumble -- I always hear this a lot. Part of what I do for a living is calculating the "overall" cost of electronics and we do buy a lot (7000+ computers running at a time, tv's, projectors) and the cost of power is HUGE in the long run and especially over many items.

Example -- a $20 CRT computer monitor is MORE expensive than a $200 LCD after 3 years of 9-5 work. CRT's use 30 watts in standby and 60 while on. Automating our computers to turn off and back on again in the morning amount to about $20 per computer per year.

And it is really, really important on TV's -- Large Plasma's can be upwards of 600 watts to run and the same size LCD 200 watts. Add in A/C cost to the heat and you get about 500 watt difference -- or about $.04 per hour. Over 2000 hours per year, is $80 a year more expensive to run. So saving $100 bucks on a TV that cost $80 a year more to run is just silly.


The same stuff applies to our reef tanks. I think the most common debate is always "what give the most light vs. power" initial cost is only a small part of the debate. Of course it works out nicely the the greenest way to do things is usually the cheapest
How many reefers have a kill-a-watt kicking around?

Now, just don't get me started on the governments way of calculating how a crown corp. or agency is carbon neutral or not.. that is really really silly.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by wolf_bluejay

And it is really, really important on TV's -- Large Plasma's can be upwards of 600 watts to run and the same size LCD 200 watts. Add in A/C cost to the heat and you get about 500 watt difference -- or about $.04 per hour. Over 2000 hours per year, is $80 a year more expensive to run. So saving $100 bucks on a TV that cost $80 a year more to run is just silly.

.

I have a large plasma, 60" so I know what your talking about, I have also changed all the rest of my TVs to LCD. so yes I am power concious as I have to pay for the stuff and it aint getting cheeper, but for example with my plasma we are not talking about saving 100 bucks on the TV, we are talking about saving 5000.00 bucks for the comparable quality. the LCD 60" were upwards of 7000.00 and higher, the plasma was 2400.00, I wanted a LCD but couldn't justify it, as LCDs work better in lighter enviorments.

take the new LED tvs compared to LCD tvs they aree a further savings yet.. about 50 - 60% less power, are you going to run out and spend an extra 1000.00 bucks for the comparable tv, just to save 40-100 watts?



for the record, I am energy concious, I know what I spend power wize and where I spend more than not. My bills are about 1/2 the amount of a comparable family in a comparable house with comparable apliances. I have switched most of my lights to a mix of PC and LED, I am happy being in the dark, except when I am eating. what I don't believe is any merrit of a camapin to save the world by turning off some lights for a hour.. my normal usage this would make no differance on my power consumption at all. it is kinda like a campain to get gas companies to lower prices by boycotting a station for a day. wanna do something meaningfull turn earth hour into earth week, mind you if I shout off all the power to my hour for 1 week it would only save me 10-15 bucks, so for money wise big deal, but it will teach you some humility and repect for what we have.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by wolf_bluejay

The same stuff applies to our reef tanks. I think the most common debate is always "what give the most light vs. power" initial cost is only a small part of the debate. Of course it works out nicely the the greenest way to do things is usually the cheapest
How many reefers have a kill-a-watt kicking around?

how do you figure green is cheeper. 9 out of 10 times green is more expensive and yes I am including the initial costs as they are still part of the cost.

take home building for example, to build green is usaly substantualy more, normaly taking 10 years of living in the house to recover the extra cost. Would I build my next house green yes, but I plan for my next to be my last, if I was only building it to live in for 5 -10 years, there is no way I would spend the extra money for something I would never recoup.

green making sence is a game of payback, if you have a car that costs 10K and gets 15mpg or a car that costs 65K and gets 60mpg but are other wise the same, which are you going to buy? I know I am getting the 10K car as 55K worth of gas is a lot of miles.. mind you we did pay 30K for a 65mpg car over a 24K 40mpg one, but that wasn't based on only gas milage.. the car is also a diesel, had more interior room and the wife liked it better. I liked the fact it is deisel as I feel diesel is the way to go. as it is less refined than gas, cheeper, has a higher BTU factor, and the engines are built to last longer. the untapped power in diesel engines is increadable also. take my truck, was a 16mpg in town 22 on the hiway, I took it from 200hp/500ftlb to 400hp/938ftlb and 20mpg in town and 30 on the hiway and there is still more gas milage and power to be had.. I am just happy with what I have now as the next round is going top be expensive.

I guess I just feel there is so many other places we can look to save the enviroment. heck just tuning up your car will do more than a week with out lights. this light thing is a tolkin campaine especialy in BC where we have a lot of hydro power and very cheep rates. want to do something meaningfull then take measures to drop your green house gas emissions, or carbon foot print.. I still need to caluculate the reduction from modifying my truck and for getting rid of the wife's old car and getting the new one. I also replaced my furnace and hotwater heater in the fall from normal units to ultra high efficiency units. now the hard desision is how to heat the shop for next winter....

Steve

[Crytone]

I don't agree with the concept of Earth Day so everything of mine will remain on. I think telling people to install some energy efficient appliances or even simple things like low wattage light bulbs would do more good in the long run.