Who's shutting down the Tank for Earth Hour Saturday

[wolf_bluejay]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

I think looking beyond price is a load of *&^*&

yes it is a valid statment given the two objects are equal in every other way, but unless there is something very compelling besides energy use I will pick the cheeper object every time.

the example you gave below the reeflo is the one I would pic despite the increased rating, as it actualy uses less than it states, but that asside the amp master is loud, prone to seal leakage and generaly a lower quality pump.

as for TV's well there is a whole different game. whats the resolution and the quality at that resolution.. hows the color quality, contrast, ect.. I would pick a TV that uses 10X the power if it was betting in the other aspects. now if they were the same quality and one used less energy.. I would pick the cheeper one. now if price was also the same I would pick the one that uses less power.

Steve

Grumble, grumble -- I always hear this a lot. Part of what I do for a living is calculating the "overall" cost of electronics and we do buy a lot (7000+ computers running at a time, tv's, projectors) and the cost of power is HUGE in the long run and especially over many items.

Example -- a $20 CRT computer monitor is MORE expensive than a $200 LCD after 3 years of 9-5 work. CRT's use 30 watts in standby and 60 while on. Automating our computers to turn off and back on again in the morning amount to about $20 per computer per year.

And it is really, really important on TV's -- Large Plasma's can be upwards of 600 watts to run and the same size LCD 200 watts. Add in A/C cost to the heat and you get about 500 watt difference -- or about $.04 per hour. Over 2000 hours per year, is $80 a year more expensive to run. So saving $100 bucks on a TV that cost $80 a year more to run is just silly.


The same stuff applies to our reef tanks. I think the most common debate is always "what give the most light vs. power" initial cost is only a small part of the debate. Of course it works out nicely the the greenest way to do things is usually the cheapest
How many reefers have a kill-a-watt kicking around?

Now, just don't get me started on the governments way of calculating how a crown corp. or agency is carbon neutral or not.. that is really really silly.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by wolf_bluejay

And it is really, really important on TV's -- Large Plasma's can be upwards of 600 watts to run and the same size LCD 200 watts. Add in A/C cost to the heat and you get about 500 watt difference -- or about $.04 per hour. Over 2000 hours per year, is $80 a year more expensive to run. So saving $100 bucks on a TV that cost $80 a year more to run is just silly.

.

I have a large plasma, 60" so I know what your talking about, I have also changed all the rest of my TVs to LCD. so yes I am power concious as I have to pay for the stuff and it aint getting cheeper, but for example with my plasma we are not talking about saving 100 bucks on the TV, we are talking about saving 5000.00 bucks for the comparable quality. the LCD 60" were upwards of 7000.00 and higher, the plasma was 2400.00, I wanted a LCD but couldn't justify it, as LCDs work better in lighter enviorments.

take the new LED tvs compared to LCD tvs they aree a further savings yet.. about 50 - 60% less power, are you going to run out and spend an extra 1000.00 bucks for the comparable tv, just to save 40-100 watts?



for the record, I am energy concious, I know what I spend power wize and where I spend more than not. My bills are about 1/2 the amount of a comparable family in a comparable house with comparable apliances. I have switched most of my lights to a mix of PC and LED, I am happy being in the dark, except when I am eating. what I don't believe is any merrit of a camapin to save the world by turning off some lights for a hour.. my normal usage this would make no differance on my power consumption at all. it is kinda like a campain to get gas companies to lower prices by boycotting a station for a day. wanna do something meaningfull turn earth hour into earth week, mind you if I shout off all the power to my hour for 1 week it would only save me 10-15 bucks, so for money wise big deal, but it will teach you some humility and repect for what we have.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by wolf_bluejay

The same stuff applies to our reef tanks. I think the most common debate is always "what give the most light vs. power" initial cost is only a small part of the debate. Of course it works out nicely the the greenest way to do things is usually the cheapest
How many reefers have a kill-a-watt kicking around?

how do you figure green is cheeper. 9 out of 10 times green is more expensive and yes I am including the initial costs as they are still part of the cost.

take home building for example, to build green is usaly substantualy more, normaly taking 10 years of living in the house to recover the extra cost. Would I build my next house green yes, but I plan for my next to be my last, if I was only building it to live in for 5 -10 years, there is no way I would spend the extra money for something I would never recoup.

green making sence is a game of payback, if you have a car that costs 10K and gets 15mpg or a car that costs 65K and gets 60mpg but are other wise the same, which are you going to buy? I know I am getting the 10K car as 55K worth of gas is a lot of miles.. mind you we did pay 30K for a 65mpg car over a 24K 40mpg one, but that wasn't based on only gas milage.. the car is also a diesel, had more interior room and the wife liked it better. I liked the fact it is deisel as I feel diesel is the way to go. as it is less refined than gas, cheeper, has a higher BTU factor, and the engines are built to last longer. the untapped power in diesel engines is increadable also. take my truck, was a 16mpg in town 22 on the hiway, I took it from 200hp/500ftlb to 400hp/938ftlb and 20mpg in town and 30 on the hiway and there is still more gas milage and power to be had.. I am just happy with what I have now as the next round is going top be expensive.

I guess I just feel there is so many other places we can look to save the enviroment. heck just tuning up your car will do more than a week with out lights. this light thing is a tolkin campaine especialy in BC where we have a lot of hydro power and very cheep rates. want to do something meaningfull then take measures to drop your green house gas emissions, or carbon foot print.. I still need to caluculate the reduction from modifying my truck and for getting rid of the wife's old car and getting the new one. I also replaced my furnace and hotwater heater in the fall from normal units to ultra high efficiency units. now the hard desision is how to heat the shop for next winter....

Steve

[Crytone]

I don't agree with the concept of Earth Day so everything of mine will remain on. I think telling people to install some energy efficient appliances or even simple things like low wattage light bulbs would do more good in the long run.

[es355lucille]

I think Earth hour is very good to teach young children that we have to be more mindful regarding energy use. As many of you have pointed out a bunch of people doing this for an hour a year is a waste of time IMO.

We do this on a daily basis (not to the extreme)......but we are very cognizant of energy useage.

[Murminator]

I will maintaining my part of earth by leaving everything running

[wayner]

Ok folks, turn the lights back on now

[Crytone]

Well, Earthday ended up kicking my ass pretty good after what I said earlier. The power to my entire condo went out about an hour ago, just came back on a few minutes ago. We were probably the most Earthday devoted building in the city!! The entire time I was worried about my tank though (luckily nothing seems to be wrong).

I also learned that there are some cute girls in my building and they all congregate in the lobby in their pajamas when the power goes out (next time I'll be sure to bring some pillows for them to fight with). I also learned that 6+ firetrucks will get here very quickly too and that they frown on you getting off the elevator (apparently running on aux power and no one knew it was still running) to get to the lobby and make you take the stairs back up to the top floor (yes, it sucked!).

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by es355lucille

I think Earth hour is very good to teach young children that we have to be more mindful regarding energy use. As many of you have pointed out a bunch of people doing this for an hour a year is a waste of time IMO.

sadly that isn't the case, I have not seen any "earth hour" things, the kids have not been told anything at school, so it looks like earth hour is a designer promotion and not as wide spread as it apears. which goes to my point it is a useless promotion which has no real effect.

I did chose to watch the canucks lose on my LCD instead of my Plasma, and I did my welding in the afternoon.

Steve