Would you want to owna product from a company that does buisness like this?

[StirCrazy]

ok I had a huge post done up then I lost internet and lost the post when I went to submit it.. I will try again.

this is going to be a summery of what I posted befor but I don't want to do that much typing

this was created to discus business practices not the computer brands.. PCs used to have a lot of hardware/compatability problems, but that like apple is a thing of the past.. apple never had this phase as they didn't let anyone else make stuf for there platforms. anyways enough of that

Apple is a large company but in the last 5 years computers have accounted for less than 30% of there profit. the majority is comming from the "I" phones and mp3 players so this is the area this post is concerning.

As Mr wilson put it Microsoft.. ect.. yup that was a while ago, but they didn't launch law suits they bought the companies then everyone screamed and the goverment slapped them with antitrust suits and asigned a watch dog to them.. which is still in effect.. so that is why you don't read the bad stuff about there practices anymore.

now apple is doing the exact same thing but they can't aford/nor want to buy the companies so they launch lawsuits to force them to go broke or to give in. for every 1 ligitimat lawsuit apple has launched they have launched one in retaliation against a company that started one against them.. you didn't think Apple was above stealing ideas did you???

at any rate it is there practice to counter sue smaller companies who try sue apple to force them to drop the lawsuit. cuz apple has more money.

Apple has done this since there beginning, back fired when they tried to do it to microsoft, but that is a different issue. so when microsoft does this kind of stuff, ie. forcing the compatition to do what they want, they get the goverment stepping in and interviening, but apple gets away with it for years and years..

well another big hitter has launched a lawsuit against both Apple and Nokia. Xerox is claiming infringment on something to do with a camera in a moble device, so finaly the goverment has stepped in and put a hold on all apple lawsuits untill the Xerox is resolved.. If Xerox wins apple will not be allowed to sell Iphones in the US.

I just find it funny that everyone who is a apple guy blindly thing Steve Jobs is the best thinbg since sliced bread, but infact he is a clone of bill gates, maybe even a bit more of a tyrant as Bill gates has never fired and sued a employ for the posability of a leak of a upcomming release.

another area that is watching this all unfole is the silicon valleys of the world.. if apple wins some of the lawsuits they have on the go it will effectivly shut down compatition for there Iphone and put a lot of people out of business and also slow down advancement. one business report I saw on TV about it was sugesting that apple who has advanced there iphone 3 or 4 times in as many years would like to slow down and make some money with out having to reinvest in advancements for a few years.. which ya is great and I am all for companies getting rewards from there work, but not at the expence of free trade and compatition.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Doug

Steve, you have a bad experience with an Apple or something.

nope my first computer was an apple.

Steve

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Crytone

I disagree with this point. I haven't had any problems in years with any PCs and any problem I have had has been hardware related (which were either DOA on my initial builds or died several years into service). I think the main reason people feel that way though is PCs are far more dominant in the marketplace. Let's suppose Apples have a 1% failure rate but only 10% of computer users own an Apple. Let's now suppose PCs have the same 1% failure rate but 90% of the users use PCs. You're going to see WAY more PCs than Apples fail just from simple math, roughly a 9:1 ratio.

You would think that may be the explanation and it sounds logical but it's not so. Apple and Macs score very well in independent measures of reliability:

http://pcworld.about.com/od/officeha...for-Reliab.htm

http://www.macworld.com/article/1466...liability.html

Steve, I don't see why people have to get on Apple's case for protecting its patented inventions. Plenty of companies do it. Apple has been sued many times for patent infringement too. What usually happens is that the company being sued ends up paying a license fee to the company holding the patent. Apple pays license fees to plenty of other companies and in the past Apple and Microsoft ended up suing each other for patent infringement. They settled and agreed to cross license each others patents. So it is doubtful that Apple will (or even could) put HTC or Nokia or Google out of business. They will simply force them to license the patented technology. Same thing with Xerox. If you think Xerox really wants to stop Apple selling iPhones then you don't know how this works. They want Apple to sell lots of iPhones and pay them some fee for each one sold. That's the game with patents.

I do not blindly support Steve Jobs or Apple. But you can't deny that Steve Jobs does have a talent for finding good people and driving them to make the best technology they can. Apple and Jobs have changed the technology landscape and I guess some people have a problem with that. Before Macintosh there was no consumer GUI. It was all experimental stuff developed by Xerox. MP3 players existed before the iPod but they were clunky and had lousy interfaces. Apple put a great package together with excellent hardware (iPod), great software to manage your music and MP3 player (iTunes) and then added the store so you could easily purchase the music you want. Nobody else integrated it into a compelling and easy to use package for the consumer.

Then came the iPhone. It again revolutionized the way we interact with technology with a multi touch screen and OS built around it. Now everybody is copying them. None of the fancy touch screen phones out there would exist today as they do without Apple paving the way. I guarantee that.

So now keep an eye on the iPad. I think that story is just unfolding and it will again revolutionize mobile computing and communication and how we read/interact with newspapers, magazines and books. Apple is an innovator and leader not a copier like everybody else. They take new technology and integrate it into well designed, stylish and easy to use devices and then everybody else runs to catch up. If that sounds to much like a fanboy statement to you well to bad; it's reality.

Also, if you think that Apple really wants to slow down development of the iPhone which will stifle innovation then I think you are sadly mistaken. Apple is built on a culture of innovation and they will bring out newer and better iPhones every year regardless of what the competition is doing. I think Apple likes competition because it helps motivate them to keep a step ahead of everybody else. All these articles are just stupid statements by anti-Apple media. I know people inside Apple and they are highly motivated to make the best stuff they can. They are not sitting around saying "Man I hope we win that patent lawsuit so we can slow down development on the next iThingy".

[lastlight]

One of the worst things about buying Apple items is that the next gen comes quickly and kicks so much more ass. I firmly believe they are always trying their best to innovate and decimate. Perhaps they spread the innovation across versions but Apple is all about pushing ideas forward and looking sexy as hell doing so.

[Crytone]

Originally Posted by Ron99

You would think that may be the explanation and it sounds logical but it's not so. Apple and Macs score very well in independent measures of reliability:

http://pcworld.about.com/od/officeha...for-Reliab.htm

http://www.macworld.com/article/1466...liability.html

So now keep an eye on the iPad. I think that story is just unfolding and it will again revolutionize mobile computing and communication and how we read/interact with newspapers, magazines and books. Apple is an innovator and leader not a copier like everybody else. They take new technology and integrate it into well designed, stylish and easy to use devices and then everybody else runs to catch up. If that sounds to much like a fanboy statement to you well to bad; it's reality.

I hate to play devils advocate but again I have to disagree with your first point. The only thing Rescuecom's scores tells us is that Apple's own Customer Support is doing it's job. To quote from the 2nd article "Rescuecom says that reliability depends on both the quality of components and the strength of customer support. If that support is lousy, customers will go looking for third-party options like Rescuecom." How many people would go to 3rd party support for an Apple? I wouldn't! I therefore find their score is irrelevant to Apple's reliability and more a "How many people come to us instead of Apple" score.

The iPad is not revolutionary. If anything it's a disappointment. I had high hopes for the iPad (I absolutely LOVE my iPod Touch) but Apple didn't deliver. No Flash support, No multitasking, no camera, etc.. iPad Version II and/or a firmware upgrade will likely fix some of these problems. I have no qualms in stating that the iPad is just an iPod Touch with a larger screen, which is how myself and many others feel. The only advantage Apple has is they already have their infrastructure in place already for the iPad- the iTunes stores and apps. Personally I'm way more interested in the Microsoft Courier as it, seems way more 'revolutionary' than the iPad.

And before I hear people call foul and that MS is copying- it was announced and had videos of it's interface in action well before iPad's announcement. Here's a small video from September 2009 of which we see what the Courier interface is conceptualized to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI

I know I probably sound heavily anti-Apple but that's far from the truth. I've stated countless times that I love my iPod Touch. I'd also likely own a Mac as my PC if I didn't dislike the OSX interface and their computers would run the apps I need them to run (running parallels and buying a copy of windows to install would defeat the purpose of owning a Mac and I'd still be limited to their hardware which isn't geared for CAD and gaming). I just don't feel Apple is as revolutionary as everyone makes them out to be but they do make slick products for sure and they do drive other companies to release more polished products/experiences.

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Crytone

I hate to play devils advocate but again I have to disagree with your first point. The only thing Rescuecom's scores tells us is that Apple's own Customer Support is doing it's job. To quote from the 2nd article "Rescuecom says that reliability depends on both the quality of components and the strength of customer support. If that support is lousy, customers will go looking for third-party options like Rescuecom." How many people would go to 3rd party support for an Apple? I wouldn't! I therefore find their score is irrelevant to Apple's reliability and more a "How many people come to us instead of Apple" score.

The iPad is not revolutionary. If anything it's a disappointment. I had high hopes for the iPad (I absolutely LOVE my iPod Touch) but Apple didn't deliver. No Flash support, No multitasking, no camera, etc.. iPad Version II and/or a firmware upgrade will likely fix some of these problems. I have no qualms in stating that the iPad is just an iPod Touch with a larger screen, which is how myself and many others feel. The only advantage Apple has is they already have their infrastructure in place already for the iPad- the iTunes stores and apps. Personally I'm way more interested in the Microsoft Courier as it, seems way more 'revolutionary' than the iPad.

And before I hear people call foul and that MS is copying- it was announced and had videos of it's interface in action well before iPad's announcement. Here's a small video from September 2009 of which we see what the Courier interface is conceptualized to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI

I know I probably sound heavily anti-Apple but that's far from the truth. I've stated countless times that I love my iPod Touch. I'd also likely own a Mac as my PC if I didn't dislike the OSX interface and their computers would run the apps I need them to run (running parallels and buying a copy of windows to install would defeat the purpose of owning a Mac and I'd still be limited to their hardware which isn't geared for CAD and gaming). I just don't feel Apple is as revolutionary as everyone makes them out to be but they do make slick products for sure and they do drive other companies to release more polished products/experiences.

Fair enough Mr. Devil's advocate However, since Rescuecom is not an authorized Apple repair company then the Apple computers they see are the older out of warranty ones. So it stands to reason that the older machines are still functioning well and reliably and Rescuecom is not receiving many service calls for older Macs. Also, others such as Consumer Reports and even PCMag have rated Apple products at or near the top. My personal experience is also one of great reliability. Of all the Macs I have bought or worked with or friends and family have owned, only two ever had a hardware problem. A faulty CDROM drive that failed within a day or two. It was replaced under warranty. And my latest Macbook Pro that had one of the faulty Nvidia chips that failed almost a year after the original warranty expired (Not Apple's fault since Nvidia shipped a bad batch of chips that ended up in many computers from Apple and Windows laptops too). Apple still replaced my entire logic board at no cost to me as they are honouring an extended warranty on that particular problem. Typing this on that machine right now. Every other machine has enjoyed a long productive life, often amongst several owners. I have passed on or sold every used Mac I ever had in still functioning condition. And not having to worry excessively about viruses and malware is also a big plus. Yeah , hackers could write Mac viruses if they wanted too but they don't at this point. So the end result is not having to deal with viruses in the same way a PC user has to.

As for the iPad, I don't think Apple has shown all its cards yet and nobody has really had a chance to use one to see what it can do. Even the developers have to make do with the software simulation at the moment. Flash? Who cares. Flash is probably on its way out and, at least the Mac version, is a major memory and performance hog. Flash on an iDevice would seriously degrade performance and battery life. HTML5 is coming and Flash is on its way out.

I also have every confidence that Apple will offer some form of multitasking to third parties. Your iPod Touch and iPhone do multitask now, just in limited ways that Apple has implemented. I stand by an earlier comment that for 98.3% of what the average user will do with their iPhone/iPod Touch multitasking is irrelevant and would significantly degrade battery life. I have rarely wished to be able to multitask. As battery performance improves and processors become more efficient I imagine Apple will open this up more. Apple seems to have specific battery life targets and implements things to meet those targets.

Now I think reading will be a killer app for the iPad. Imagine your newspaper and magazines with interactive content and videos etc. or textbooks with interactive diagrams and videos etc. Imagine the internet in your lap on the couch in an easy to use and very lightweight device that is better than any netbook but lighter then any laptop. I think as a textbook device this will be HUGE (note capital letters). I would have killed to have something like this in school instead of carrying 40 pounds of textbooks around. Now imagine your textbook being fully interactive. Videos, animated diagrams, interactive anatomical drawings that you can rotate and see from any angle and add or subtract layers or anatomical features. How about interactive quizzes to hep you test your knowledge? no more doing the sample questions and then having to flip back and forth between the quiz page and the end of the book (or end of the chapter and reading upside down) to find answers. Now have the textbook take you back to review only the topics you had problems with in the quiz. This could be a major change in education.

As for the Courier, I'll believe it when I see it. It's a nice cartoon concept but Microsoft has not shown any real device. I seriously doubt MS can pull off anything half as nice as the Courier concept in a real device. I guess we'll see but it is vapourware at the moment.

When it comes to multi touch both Apple and Microsoft and others are copying. The actual technology was developed and experimented with at various Universities and was really perfected by Jeff Han at NYU (look up some of the youtube videos of his work). Apple was the first to adapt and implement it for the mass market. I don't think Apple claims to have "invented" it but they have patented their implementation of it and if others are trying to implement it in the same way then I guess they infringe Apple's patents.

I think Apple is incredibly innovative as they are often the first to be able to bring new technology to the market, even if the concept came from Universities etc. They are masters at making technology work for the average person. Microsoft and others have never been innovative in the same way. Is Apple perfect? of course not. They make mistakes and sometimes get it wrong. But overall they get it way more right then others way more often. If appreciating elegant and stylish devices and software that allow me to work efficiently or make the technology intuitive and transparent in my everyday tasks is being a fanboy then I guess I'm guilty as charged.

[Cameron]

I must say, after having a few of my own patents, and having to file law suits against others that are infringing. I see no reason why not to sue.

I could roll over and let someone else steal my ideas, eventually be crowded out if they mass market more than me....or I can enforce my patent and my business, and be successful.

Business is business and try getting a shareholder to still fund your venture when you aren't turning a profit.....good luck.

Remember the shareholders own the company and if you aren't performing to what is expected of you, prepare to go under.

We live in a capitalistic society, live with it or leave it.

[fkshiu]

Frivolous lawsuits are par for the course in business - all business. It's simply a tool in negotiating deals nowadays, especially in the IT sector. All I did when I practiced civil law was start and defend lawsuits with little or no actual chance of success.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Cameron

I must say, after having a few of my own patents, and having to file law suits against others that are infringing. I see no reason why not to sue.

I could roll over and let someone else steal my ideas, eventually be crowded out if they mass market more than me....or I can enforce my patent and my business, and be successful.

Business is business and try getting a shareholder to still fund your venture when you aren't turning a profit.....good luck.

Remember the shareholders own the company and if you aren't performing to what is expected of you, prepare to go under.

We live in a capitalistic society, live with it or leave it.

ahh but were not talking about justified lawsuits, were talking about phony counter suits launched against smaller companies who your stold ideas from just to force them to drop the suit or go out of buisness so you don't have to pay them for there ideas you ripped off.


It seams people are still stuck on the Apple Vs. PC computer argument.. get over it or argue more in Doug's thread this is more to do with Cell phones and business preactices.

Steve

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

ahh but were not talking about justified lawsuits, were talking about phony counter suits launched against smaller companies who your stold ideas from just to force them to drop the suit or go out of buisness so you don't have to pay them for there ideas you ripped off.


It seams people are still stuck on the Apple Vs. PC computer argument.. get over it or argue more in Doug's thread this is more to do with Cell phones and business preactices.

Steve

So who's business practices and lawsuits are we talking about here? Nokia suing Apple? Apple counter suing Nokia? Xerox suing everybody? Apple suing HTC? They're all suing each other. Because all the other phone companies scramble to copy the iPhone which was a big step forward? Not just as a phone but also as a business model in which the phone maker was not at the mercy of the network provider saying what features they could or could not have activated. Apple set the stage for a fully featured smartphone with few compromises insisted on by the networks. Previously the AT&Ts of the world insisted on having various features disabled etc. so they could maximize their own profits. So who's business practices were suspect?

So how is Apple different and worth attacking because of all this? Because of a few stupid articles by anti-Apple pundits who are trying to claim Apple wants to put others out of business and wants to slow down the pace of it's developments? Sorry, not sure exactly what the argument here is.