Ethical question: What would you do? UPDATE: HOLY COW I CAUGHT HIM ON THE 1ST TRY!

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by mark

Bigger tank.

Seriously someone has to go and I'd probably pick the aggressor. Be hard enough to get rid of the other fish then only to find the King starts picking on the others remaining.

Have you tried a big reorg of the rock work?

The problem is, is that the main reason I set up the 230g fowlr tank is so that I could have a king angel. If I sold this king angel I would get another, and possibly have the same problem occur that I'm having now, as most king angels are aggressive. However I might get lucky and find one (like my sohal tang) that's not aggressive but that seems unlikely. Then there's also the problem of finding a healthy king angel for sale in the store and also finding a person that I approve of that would be willing to buy my king angel.

Basically a few months ago I thought for a brief moment about re-homing my king angel but after all I've been through with her: The whole marine velvet incident, her being my only angel who survived it, and her surviving was the main reason I didn't shut down the fowlr tank after losing most of my fish. I just could never bring myself to give her up. She is mean but it's her tank and I love her the most.

So even though it would be hard to re-home the other fish re-homing my king angel isn't going to happen. She has never showed any interest in the other fish with her in the tank. I think because they are so different from her that that is why she's ok with them. I honestly don't think she would start to pick on the others once the 2 fish she is picking on are gone. However I don't really know but I don't think she would.

Moving rock around in the past never helped.....bigger tank you say Unfortunately there's no room or money for one

[Chase31]

give her the sump treatment for a few days?
maybe help a lil

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by Chin_Lee

PUt a mirror in front of the tank and let the King Angel take out its aggression on itself for a few day. then see what happens fter you take away the mirror. Might have to do it a few times and see if things improve.

I tried that, she half looks at herself then mostly avoids the side of the tank the mirror is on. You would think she'd attack her image but for some odd reason she doesn't.

Originally Posted by Leah

You already know the answer when you ask the question

There's a difference between knowing the answer and having others pound it into your head so you actually do end up doing the right thing

[Delphinus]

It's a hard decision to rehome a fish (or fishes) but I think when you (the proverbial "you" not the literal "you") know that the fish are not the best off in your tank, then you should sell them. Indeed, the "what if they die" question. Well, the thing is, until you sell them, they are "your fish" and thus you can be choosy to whom you sell. I've only sold 2 fish out of my care, my virgatus rabbitfish pair that I sold to make room for a pair of doliatus rabbitfish .. I agonized over the decision but in the end they went to a tank 4 times the volume of the tank they came out of. So, .. it's not all doom and gloom out there.

The next thing to say is it hardly seems a dream fish if it causes you sadness to see the aggression between the two.

Here's my suggestion. Try to visualize your tank without someone in it. If it causes you intense sadness, visualize a different someone. Ok so if they all cause sadness this isn't going to work but I think sometimes you can honestly visualize an option that would cause you relief. If you can visualize it .. then you know what to do.

Good luck Laurie.

[naesco]

Thank you for recognizing that you have a serious ethical problem. The attitude of the King is hell on the other fish in the tank.
You either get rid of the King to another reefer who has a tank large enough to accommodate her (300+ gallons) or re=home the other fish.
I think you will find the latter easier on you.
Thank you for asking for our opinion.

[Marlin65]

My vote is to find a new home for your emperor and hope the rest work it out.

[Leah]

It is a tough choice and usually are gut tells us what to do. I know you will find the best possible solution may take some time but you really have to do what you think is best. I know you will do it Laurie.

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

I would say rehome the emporor. the fox face is totaly capable of defending himself, mind you if he realy gets thretened he cold kill the other fish with his spines.

but start there and see how it goes.. with one less fish the agression might slow down or stop.

Steve

That's a good thought, however she nips the foxface's tail often, whereas I think sometimes she forgets the emperor is even in there. The only time she remembers him is if he tries to swim out from his hiding spot, then she rushes over and scares him back into it. I was hoping that as he changed into his adult colouration and got bigger he would get braver and the king would leave him alone, but now I'm not so sure of that.

So unfortunately with the emperor gone I doubt it would make much of a difference for the foxface.

Originally Posted by Chase31

give her the sump treatment for a few days?
maybe help a lil

She is way to big to fit in my sump. Plus somehow I don't think it would make a difference. When I had my QT set up for all my fish getting treatment for marine velvet my king angel kept attacking my sohal tang, who is pretty close to the same size as her, and he of all fish should of been able to hold his own against her, but he was afraid of her.

In fact my foxface is the only fish she has picked on that doesn't seem to be too afraid of her. Maybe because he stands up to her she only sort of picks on him by nipping his tail every now and then. With other fish she will relentlessly go after them until she'd probably kill them if I'd let her. Had to re-home my blue ring angel because she was picking on him horribly. Tried a sailfin tang (who was being aggressive in another persons tank) and in the 2 minutes the sailfin was in the fowlr tank my king angel managed to shred his side fin, nip up his tail and slice the top half of the sailfin's sailfin right in half Good thing we were able to pull him back out right away because I'm not sure I'd want to think about what would of happened if we couldn't of.

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

It's a hard decision to rehome a fish (or fishes) but I think when you (the proverbial "you" not the literal "you") know that the fish are not the best off in your tank, then you should sell them. Indeed, the "what if they die" question. Well, the thing is, until you sell them, they are "your fish" and thus you can be choosy to whom you sell. I've only sold 2 fish out of my care, my virgatus rabbitfish pair that I sold to make room for a pair of doliatus rabbitfish .. I agonized over the decision but in the end they went to a tank 4 times the volume of the tank they came out of. So, .. it's not all doom and gloom out there.

The next thing to say is it hardly seems a dream fish if it causes you sadness to see the aggression between the two.

Here's my suggestion. Try to visualize your tank without someone in it. If it causes you intense sadness, visualize a different someone. Ok so if they all cause sadness this isn't going to work but I think sometimes you can honestly visualize an option that would cause you relief. If you can visualize it .. then you know what to do.

Good luck Laurie.

You're right there are a lot of good homes out there and I will be picky about who they go to. I mostly likely will give the foxface to someone I trust. The emperor is a hard one because I love emperors and he's in the middle of changing colours and it's amazing to watch. I'm leaning towards putting him in the reef, but I'm not sure if I can convince Steve to try it out.

Interesting what you say about the visualization technique, because that is exactly what I did when Ken (from Blue World) offered my king a home in his larger display tank. However when I got right down to it A: I know I will always want a king angel and B: I couldn't picture my tank without her in it, as she is my prized fish whom I love despite all her faults. So as sad as the thought of re-homing the others is, the thought of losing her is much worse.

Originally Posted by naesco

Thank you for recognizing that you have a serious ethical problem. The attitude of the King is hell on the other fish in the tank.
You either get rid of the King to another reefer who has a tank large enough to accommodate her (300+ gallons) or re=home the other fish.
I think you will find the latter easier on you.
Thank you for asking for our opinion.

You are right as the later will be easier on me.

Also I appreciate everyone's opinions. It's helps to hear others tell you the right thing to do, because there are times when you know what's the right thing but you don't always want to completely admit it.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by fishoholic

That's a good thought, however she nips the foxface's tail often, whereas I think sometimes she forgets the emperor is even in there. The only time she remembers him is if he tries to swim out from his hiding spot, then she rushes over and scares him back into it. I was hoping that as he changed into his adult colouration and got bigger he would get braver and the king would leave him alone, but now I'm not so sure of that.

So unfortunately with the emperor gone I doubt it would make much of a difference for the foxface.

the emperor is in constant hiding, where the fox face is still out and about. we feel bad as there is some nipped fins, but the foxface doesn't mind much otherwide he wouldn't come out.. her would be hiding in the corner like the emperor.

also the foxface is not an angel so you would mostlikely have less agression with the foxface than if you left the emperor. thats why he is in hiding all the time.. the big guy goes after the emperor so hard that he is just staying in that little corner. I think getting rid of the foxface would be the worst way to go.. one of the others should be the one to leave. or buy a 600 gal tank

Steve