Ethical question: What would you do? UPDATE: HOLY COW I CAUGHT HIM ON THE 1ST TRY!

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

I would say rehome the emporor. the fox face is totaly capable of defending himself, mind you if he realy gets thretened he cold kill the other fish with his spines.

but start there and see how it goes.. with one less fish the agression might slow down or stop.

Steve

That's a good thought, however she nips the foxface's tail often, whereas I think sometimes she forgets the emperor is even in there. The only time she remembers him is if he tries to swim out from his hiding spot, then she rushes over and scares him back into it. I was hoping that as he changed into his adult colouration and got bigger he would get braver and the king would leave him alone, but now I'm not so sure of that.

So unfortunately with the emperor gone I doubt it would make much of a difference for the foxface.

Originally Posted by Chase31

give her the sump treatment for a few days?
maybe help a lil

She is way to big to fit in my sump. Plus somehow I don't think it would make a difference. When I had my QT set up for all my fish getting treatment for marine velvet my king angel kept attacking my sohal tang, who is pretty close to the same size as her, and he of all fish should of been able to hold his own against her, but he was afraid of her.

In fact my foxface is the only fish she has picked on that doesn't seem to be too afraid of her. Maybe because he stands up to her she only sort of picks on him by nipping his tail every now and then. With other fish she will relentlessly go after them until she'd probably kill them if I'd let her. Had to re-home my blue ring angel because she was picking on him horribly. Tried a sailfin tang (who was being aggressive in another persons tank) and in the 2 minutes the sailfin was in the fowlr tank my king angel managed to shred his side fin, nip up his tail and slice the top half of the sailfin's sailfin right in half Good thing we were able to pull him back out right away because I'm not sure I'd want to think about what would of happened if we couldn't of.

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

It's a hard decision to rehome a fish (or fishes) but I think when you (the proverbial "you" not the literal "you") know that the fish are not the best off in your tank, then you should sell them. Indeed, the "what if they die" question. Well, the thing is, until you sell them, they are "your fish" and thus you can be choosy to whom you sell. I've only sold 2 fish out of my care, my virgatus rabbitfish pair that I sold to make room for a pair of doliatus rabbitfish .. I agonized over the decision but in the end they went to a tank 4 times the volume of the tank they came out of. So, .. it's not all doom and gloom out there.

The next thing to say is it hardly seems a dream fish if it causes you sadness to see the aggression between the two.

Here's my suggestion. Try to visualize your tank without someone in it. If it causes you intense sadness, visualize a different someone. Ok so if they all cause sadness this isn't going to work but I think sometimes you can honestly visualize an option that would cause you relief. If you can visualize it .. then you know what to do.

Good luck Laurie.

You're right there are a lot of good homes out there and I will be picky about who they go to. I mostly likely will give the foxface to someone I trust. The emperor is a hard one because I love emperors and he's in the middle of changing colours and it's amazing to watch. I'm leaning towards putting him in the reef, but I'm not sure if I can convince Steve to try it out.

Interesting what you say about the visualization technique, because that is exactly what I did when Ken (from Blue World) offered my king a home in his larger display tank. However when I got right down to it A: I know I will always want a king angel and B: I couldn't picture my tank without her in it, as she is my prized fish whom I love despite all her faults. So as sad as the thought of re-homing the others is, the thought of losing her is much worse.

Originally Posted by naesco

Thank you for recognizing that you have a serious ethical problem. The attitude of the King is hell on the other fish in the tank.
You either get rid of the King to another reefer who has a tank large enough to accommodate her (300+ gallons) or re=home the other fish.
I think you will find the latter easier on you.
Thank you for asking for our opinion.

You are right as the later will be easier on me.

Also I appreciate everyone's opinions. It's helps to hear others tell you the right thing to do, because there are times when you know what's the right thing but you don't always want to completely admit it.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by fishoholic

That's a good thought, however she nips the foxface's tail often, whereas I think sometimes she forgets the emperor is even in there. The only time she remembers him is if he tries to swim out from his hiding spot, then she rushes over and scares him back into it. I was hoping that as he changed into his adult colouration and got bigger he would get braver and the king would leave him alone, but now I'm not so sure of that.

So unfortunately with the emperor gone I doubt it would make much of a difference for the foxface.

the emperor is in constant hiding, where the fox face is still out and about. we feel bad as there is some nipped fins, but the foxface doesn't mind much otherwide he wouldn't come out.. her would be hiding in the corner like the emperor.

also the foxface is not an angel so you would mostlikely have less agression with the foxface than if you left the emperor. thats why he is in hiding all the time.. the big guy goes after the emperor so hard that he is just staying in that little corner. I think getting rid of the foxface would be the worst way to go.. one of the others should be the one to leave. or buy a 600 gal tank

Steve

[nlreefguy]

I read an article lately in a marine aquarium magazine where the guy added a large puffer to his tank to diffuse the aggression (kinda like adding a cop to the tank) and it really worked out for him. I can't remember who it was now but it was a prominent hobby journalist (might have been Coral magazine, not sure). Just another thought but may or may not work in your situation.

[steve fedyk]

I would move the emperor and fox face to the reef.

[goby1]

Originally Posted by steve fedyk

I would move the emperor and fox face to the reef.

x2, See what happens and go from there.

[my2rotties]

Well Laurie, I don't know what to tell you. You know what I have told you about the king angel. When I had my Emp he always hid a lot anyways. Just the nature of the fish to be honest. Why not set that tank as an aggressive tank with fish that the King won't mess around with. You know, lion fish and the likes.

You know how much I LOVED Griffie but he started killing other fish and now he is in the best home possible where his new owner adores him. I had to rehome my Sohal tang as well, and when I took him out fo the tank it was instant peace. I had no idea of how bad things really were until he actually came out. I had him in my holding tank in the basement thinking maybe I would isolate him and then put him back into the display... when I saw the instant peace, I knew it would not happen.

My Emp used to eat zoas and things like that so the reef tank may not be the best choice. However if you want to sell your Emp, I will meet you in Red Deer if you want... mind you, I have my Regal angel and don't know if he would cause grief with him.

If I were you and HAD to keep the King, I would rehome some fish and set it up as an aggressive tank. It would be way cool as well.

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

the emperor is in constant hiding, where the fox face is still out and about. we feel bad as there is some nipped fins, but the foxface doesn't mind much otherwide he wouldn't come out.. her would be hiding in the corner like the emperor.

also the foxface is not an angel so you would mostlikely have less agression with the foxface than if you left the emperor. thats why he is in hiding all the time.. the big guy goes after the emperor so hard that he is just staying in that little corner. I think getting rid of the foxface would be the worst way to go.. one of the others should be the one to leave. or buy a 600 gal tank

Steve

After thinking a lot about this last night, I really thought about what you said about how the foxface is able to defend himself and how the emperor needs to be the first to move since the king has cornered him. So this morning I talked to Steve and he was ok with the emperor moving to the reef tank. I figured I would take this step first and then continue to monitor the king's aggression towards the foxface and if it gets really bad (goes further than just a nipped tail) then I will look into re-homing the foxface. Right now the foxface swims out in the open and doesn't let the king's bad behavior bother him.

Originally Posted by my2rotties

Why not set that tank as an aggressive tank with fish that the King won't mess around with. You know, lion fish and the likes.


If I were you and HAD to keep the King, I would rehome some fish and set it up as an aggressive tank. It would be way cool as well.

This is basically what I'm doing. The original plan for the tank was to be a tank of a few angel fish but now it will be more of an aggressive tank, which it basically is. The tank has the king angel, foxface, bursa trigger, lunare wrasse, miniatus grouper and blue spot toby puffer. Maybe later down the road I will add a lion fish.

[fishoholic]

Well that was easy So I was expecting this 1-2 hour, arms soaking wet, a few bad words and getting really ticked off attempt after attempt before I would actually catch the emperor.

I ended up basically catching him on the first try I know he only comes out of hiding to eat so I poured some mysis into the tank and in one quick move I swooped the net under him and then I literally almost fell over (in shock) when I realized he really was in the net I have tired this in the past many many many many times and it has never worked before. I actually said "Holy (insert bad "S" word here) I can't believe I just caught him" It even took me a few seconds to realize he really was in the net, I was all like "He can't be in there that was too easy" but there he was, so over to the reef tank he went. FYI my 2 tanks are right across from each other with just a few feet separating them.

So I'm happy to say the emperor seems to be setting into his new home nicely. He hid for a few minutes and now he's swimming out in the open front and center. Best of all he's not getting picked on and he's not picking on anyone. Let's hope it stays that way and lets hope he doesn't like Steve's zoos.