thread review - canreef staff please read

Quinster · #1 05-14-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.A.D.

Well....I'm sure that for any potential business from me, you could somehow persuade your LFS to relinquiesh the CITES for me to veryify...otherwise how would I know? I am just basing my purchase on your honesty that the corals were imported legally.

Could I call DFO to visit your LFS so that they can verify the CITES authenticity before I make a purchase?

Could you kindly ask your LFS if this would be a possibility?

Thanks.

Do you do this with all the other stores you purchase items from that look exotic or may be labeled as something it is not? When your buddy/neighbor "John Doe" frags his nice new exotic coral for you, do you ask him for proof of cities import?

I don't see many stores that import their own corals, let alone someone who frags their personal stock for resale accomidating you with this information.

How would you verify the coral in question is the actual one listed on the cities provided?

**EDIT: I see this was touched upon while I was taking my sweet time posting.**

Gooly001 · #2 05-14-2009, 05:23 PM

Exactly my point....why can't I ask one vendor for verification and not another?

I am not trying to cause trouble...actually what I'm trying to do is prove a point that this thread is useless.

Asking a LFS to provide documentation to prove thier legitimacy is assinine. LFS protect their suppliers and will not readily provide such documentation.

So if Dave can ask another competitor for documents to verify the legalities why can't I ask the same of Dave?

Thanks.

Aquattro · #3 05-14-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.A.D.

Exactly my point....why can't I ask one vendor for verification and not another?

I am not trying to cause trouble...actually what I'm trying to do is prove a point that this thread is useless.

Asking a LFS to provide documentation to prove thier legitimacy is assinine. LFS protect their suppliers and will not readily provide such documentation.

So if Dave can ask another competitor for documents to verify the legalities why can't I ask the same of Dave?

Thanks.

I've just seen the notes where Dave is asking the same thing, so fair enough.

wickedfrags · #4 05-14-2009, 05:29 PM

Why don't you tell everyone your name and who you are representing???

You think you can hide anonymously behind a userID?

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.A.D.

Exactly my point....why can't I ask one vendor for verification and not another?

I am not trying to cause trouble...actually what I'm trying to do is prove a point that this thread is useless.

Asking a LFS to provide documentation to prove thier legitimacy is assinine. LFS protect their suppliers and will not readily provide such documentation.

So if Dave can ask another competitor for documents to verify the legalities why can't I ask the same of Dave?

Thanks.

Aquattro · #5 05-14-2009, 05:33 PM

Dave, Ian, Paul. This is not going to be allowed to continue.

Dave, this is not the intent of vendor forums, and is not considered part of normal business activities.
I'm going to ask that this is closed and dropped. There will be no productive result from continuing this thread.

blaster · #6 05-14-2009, 05:37 PM

interesting

wickedfrags · #7 05-14-2009, 05:45 PM

I agree with you completely - the importation of corals is NOT the discussion, the discussion is about the importation of Steve Tyree corals and other corals from the USA.

Can we atleast allow "R.A.D." to formerly introduce himself, to add balance and value to the "read" before I/you close it...........the readers deserve to know. Dave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Dave, Ian, Paul. This is not going to be allowed to continue.

Dave, this is not the intent of vendor forums, and is not considered part of normal business activities.
I'm going to ask that this is closed and dropped. There will be no productive result from continuing this thread.

Aquattro · #8 05-14-2009, 05:51 PM

Dave, I'm sorry, I really see this as a petty fight between vendors. You guys really need to work out your issues offline.
If you have an ORA coral, I'll buy it because I believe you, or I won't because I don't. It's my choice as a consumer. We don't need to go on about who does or does not have rights, pernits, etc, and I'm telling the DFO, and I'm telling your mom you're a coral smuggler.
This has become just plain silly.
You need to worry about and sell your frags.
Ian needs to worry about and sell his frags.
I have no freaking idea who Paul is or his association with Ian, and frankly, I don't care.
If I have a question for any of you about frags I want to consider buying, I'll email you. That's how it's done.
Please put this thread out of everyone's misery

wickedfrags · #9 05-14-2009, 05:56 PM

Don't care - perhaps then you/everyone can appreciate his logic!!! I can tell you a few stories...

He's online and reading....give it 10 minutes then I will close it if he won't step up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro

.
I have no freaking idea who Paul is or his association with Ian, and frankly, I don't care.

Ron99 · #10 05-14-2009, 05:50 PM

As I see it there are several issues/points here:

1. The corals are being advertised as having a specific "branded" lineage as ORA or Tyree aquacultured so I think Dave was just asking for some documentation to show that. Perhaps he could of done it by PM to avoid some of this controversy but I don't think he was accusing anybody of any particular and possibly shady dealings, he just wanted to see some documentation that these were in fact what was described. I suppose it's like buying a pedigreed dog or horse. You will want to see some documentation showing the pedigree.

2. A separate issue is whether it is possible to legally import these into Canada. From my discussions with Ian it seems they have found a way to do that. Good for them. If they want to keep it a trade secret for business reasons I guess they have the right to do that. Ian should be able to provide some proof of lineage without giving away his methods but I don't think he needs to do that publicly. That can be handled by PM or email or in person etc. To accuse him of possible illegal activity in a public forum without evidence is stepping over the line. Maybe those posts should have been removed rather than closing the entire thread but that is surely another discussion that does not seem to get much traction with the mods here.

3. The CITES rules are here and despite their flaws, they do exist to protect the wild stocks of corals and animals etc. So unless people want to organize an effort to have the rules modified to have different documentation standards for aquacultured corals then we have to live with them. Regardless it will all be open to abuse one way or the other. As mentioned, what's to stop importers from slipping in any ORA or TYREE acro species under an acro CITES permit (not that I am saying this is what happens). If you change it to have different rules for aquacultured stuff what's to stop somebody slipping in some banned wild acro with a bunch of aquacultured stuff? I think it can be open to abuse either way so what is the best solution?