Copperband (pls. close)

[untamed]

I only tried one CBB...and lost him within a week. I like the bacterial theory.

[hipp77]

Sorry to hear that you lost your fish. This may help others that are thinking of getting a CBB, myself included.

[hillegom]

After reading this post, I won't ever buy a CBB.
Sorry for your loss

[leezard]

Yet another noob question.... where would the cyanide poisoning come from (if that's what is actually is)?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by leezard

Yet another noob question.... where would the cyanide poisoning come from (if that's what is actually is)?

Any country that collects fish for the trade. But most likely Philippines and its becoming more and more common in Indonesia now too.

They put cyanide in little squirt bottles to take on collection dives. When the fish get scared and hide in the rocks or coral heads, they squirt cyanide into their hiding spot to stun them and the fish float out. Estimates are that about half die right away and half are just stunned for the time being. But of that half that actually are collected, many still are way too weak to make it to land even. The rest often die in our tanks. The cyanide does not stay in the fishes system long at all. It actually gone relatively fast but it leaves behind permanent damage. Perfect for these collectors. The fish will appear healthy and survive until it gets to someones tank. What you don't know is that this fish has a damaged liver or other internal organs and is actually dying slowly. It can take months.

National Geographic put out a study saying that for every one cyanide fish that is caught and makes it to our tanks, a square meter of reef is destroyed--the cyanide kills the corals too of course. Kills inverts, kills mostly everything it comes in contact with. It does dissipate quite quickly in saltwater, so that saves the area from being completely destroyed but after years and years of this, the reefs in some area of the Philippines are looking rough from all the cyanide exposure. I have seen this first hand.

In fact last year we were on a dive in the Philippines and came across what must have been hundreds of very healthy looking dead fish on the bottom of one area of a reef. I was really confused and it was such a sad sight. Of course my dad and I asked after what it was and our guide told us it was nothing...tried to brush it off. We persisted and eventually he admitted it was cyanide fishing and that these collectors had been now moving into tourist areas even. They come early in the morning before anyone was out there and then disappear. My dad got a lot of info out of him about cyanide poisoning. He pretty much said it was rampant around the islands and that no one cared.

Its a big issue that not too many people want to admit is happening and even less can or will do anything about it. You've seen what happens when its brought up here

[Funky_Fish14]

Im very sorry to hear about your loss Its difficult to lose any animal or certainly 'friend'.

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

The cyanide does not stay in the fishes system long at all. It actually gone relatively fast but it leaves behind permanent damage.

I have to interject with this statement - Cyanide is actually an inhibitor that attaches almost permanently to trigger sites in biological structures. It can bond anywhere in the body of an organism, and in any amount, it simply depends on where it is carried. The cyanide that does not attach to any bonding sites will leave the body quickly, yes, but the cyanide that does not, simply sticks and stays. It can exist in any amount on any organ or body part - and can inhibit the correct function of that system - affecting the animal's function and lifespan accordingly. It can take a long time before you see any results due to the problem. Heart problems loom for months, maybe even years, before they jump out (see high blood pressure for example - high blood pressure is a problem, but you CAN live your whole life with it not affecting you much - or you can die from a heart attack triggered by high blood pressure). It essentially affects you after whatever amount of body imbalance has been inflicted by the cyanide.

Anyways - I doubt cyanide is the case in these situations. It would likely cause gradual deterioration over time as the fish were allowed to live so long seemingly unnafected, and yet pass so suddenly and dramatically. It sounds like another problem is the major player, and I doubt that cyanide problems like this would be so copperband specific.

Sorry, dont mean to spark any debates, just had to add a bit about the nature of cyanide.

Again, sorry to hear about your loss.

Chris

[Funky_Fish14]

*The body (of any animal) is so perfectly balanced that I bet most animals affected by cyanide never make it to the hobby tanks, the retail stores even. Those that do get affected and make it to retail tanks, have such little exposure, and probably were not even the targets of the cyanide use anyways. Its sad because it is such a destructive and innefective method of capture... start captive breeding instead... it would probably end up cheaper.... and much higher yielding.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Funky_Fish14

Im very sorry to hear about your loss Its difficult to lose any animal or certainly 'friend'.



I have to interject with this statement - Cyanide is actually an inhibitor that attaches almost permanently to trigger sites in biological structures. It can bond anywhere in the body of an organism, and in any amount, it simply depends on where it is carried. The cyanide that does not attach to any bonding sites will leave the body quickly, yes, but the cyanide that does not, simply sticks and stays. It can exist in any amount on any organ or body part - and can inhibit the correct function of that system - affecting the animal's function and lifespan accordingly. It can take a long time before you see any results due to the problem. Heart problems loom for months, maybe even years, before they jump out (see high blood pressure for example - high blood pressure is a problem, but you CAN live your whole life with it not affecting you much - or you can die from a heart attack triggered by high blood pressure). It essentially affects you after whatever amount of body imbalance has been inflicted by the cyanide.

Anyways - I doubt cyanide is the case in these situations. It would likely cause gradual deterioration over time as the fish were allowed to live so long seemingly unnafected, and yet pass so suddenly and dramatically. It sounds like another problem is the major player, and I doubt that cyanide problems like this would be so copperband specific.

Sorry, dont mean to spark any debates, just had to add a bit about the nature of cyanide.

Again, sorry to hear about your loss.

Chris

This goes completely against all the studies I have read on the subject. Your going against some highly respected and reputable scientists on this one. Even some of the hobby biologist like Fenner have stated it does not stay in the system.

If this is based on humans reaction to cyanide, this has been brought up in the past and fish are not the same.

[naesco]

Originally Posted by hillegom

After reading this post, I won't ever buy a CBB.
Sorry for your loss

Great decision hillegom.

It is very sad for me to see posters asking for information of a very difficult species and the only ones who care to post are those that have been lucky enough to keep them for a while.
Those who have repeatedly attempted to keep them and fail do not post their lack of success for some reason.

I applaud GSP for having the courage to do so and you who have made an informed decision based on his post.
Wayne

[leezard]

I'll admit that I was very and horribly discouraged about the saltwater hobby in general when I heard about the cyanide "traps". I really had no idea. I find wild caught is bad enough, but that story just kills me.

I talked to one of the staff at a LFS today about it -- while he knows it still happens, he thinks it's a rare scenario now. I only hope he's right -- else I may just stick with the 20 gallon tank that I have now and not even bother with the big one I dream to have one day....