'PicoSurge'

golf nut · #1 02-13-2009, 12:13 PM

You won't get sued as long as it's for your own use, I would be interested in your surge idea.

Myka · #2 02-13-2009, 01:26 PM

Interesting idea, I'll be tagging alone for the ride. That Irian Jaya rock scares me...it has so much green on it! I wonder why J&L isn't stocking Tonga and Fiji anymore...? All their live rock is over $8/lb now. That's steep.

bignose · #3 02-13-2009, 04:20 PM

Can you define a surge tank for me? I've never heard of that before.

mseepman · #4 02-13-2009, 04:22 PM

Tonga rock is banned from collection now if I remember correctly.

BlueAbyss · #5 02-13-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mseepman

Tonga rock is banned from collection now if I remember correctly.

Yes, they've stopped exporting it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bignose

Can you define a surge tank for me? I've never heard of that before.

Hmm, well I'm not sure there's a definition for it, really... I would define it, personally and for my own uses, as a tank that is fed it's flow mostly by surge device. I suppose it could be considered a 'tidepool' style tank by some. And lots of flow too, like 50x turnover.

I use the term as a way to describe the planned flow of water through the tank, a (relatively) large volume of water moving in a dominant direction with some flowback but with low force. Or that's the idea anyhow

I'm not sure what the turbulence will be like inside the tank with my current ideas... the tiny fishes and shrimps and crabs might get blown away, or that's my fear. I won't know until I build it

Delphinus · #6 02-13-2009, 05:00 PM

I toyed with the idea of toilet flapper surge tanks over my 75g some years ago. In the end I discontinued them because the flappers kept getting hung up (a problem with the way I implemented them, not a problem with the idea of a toilet flapper surge tank, per se), and also just because I was sort of disappointed with the amount of flow that came out. I had 2 1-1/2" outputs per tank and it was just as if someone had turned on a pump for 30 seconds. I really wanted a more dramatic "crash" of water but realized I had nowhere near the height to work with for the kind of head pressure that would take.

I started wondering how it would be if, instead of a toilet flapper, one could use an automated valve of some kind. Then you could have it open and close at intervals and probably reduce the amount of air introduced into the tank (unless, of course, the bubbles are something you want - after all most waves do sort of create transient bubbles).

I've also wondered what a Carlson surge tank would look like if you used really large diameter pipe so the tank emptied briskly..

Anyhow, fun stuff, wish I had more time/energy to play around more with this sort of thing.

Good luck with your experiment, can't wait to see it in action!

BlueAbyss · #7 02-13-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphinus

I toyed with the idea of toilet flapper surge tanks over my 75g some years ago. In the end I discontinued them because the flappers kept getting hung up (a problem with the way I implemented them, not a problem with the idea of a toilet flapper surge tank, per se), and also just because I was sort of disappointed with the amount of flow that came out. I had 2 1-1/2" outputs per tank and it was just as if someone had turned on a pump for 30 seconds. I really wanted a more dramatic "crash" of water but realized I had nowhere near the height to work with for the kind of head pressure that would take.

I started wondering how it would be if, instead of a toilet flapper, one could use an automated valve of some kind. Then you could have it open and close at intervals and probably reduce the amount of air introduced into the tank (unless, of course, the bubbles are something you want - after all most waves do sort of create transient bubbles).

I've also wondered what a Carlson surge tank would look like if you used really large diameter pipe so the tank emptied briskly..

Anyhow, fun stuff, wish I had more time/energy to play around more with this sort of thing.

Good luck with your experiment, can't wait to see it in action!

I'll be using a modified CSD that should empty 1l in about 2s or less... dammit, you figured out my idea!

Well since the cat-is-out-of-the-bag so to speak, I might as well tell you what I bought... I have a length of 1 3/4" ABS and a length of 3/4 " CPVC tube from CDN Tire last night, and a 1 3/4 cap. The idea is that the siphon will be one tube inside the other (which will be capped) and the assembly will be in its own small tank above the display. This will be piped down into a bubble settlling chamber at one end of the tank, and will flow strongly across the top of the tank and less so near the sandbed. I have yet to test my siphon... actually I put the pipes in the corner and haven't touched them. I won't until I get a bucket and some silicone. Then it's on!

I actually did consider using a solenoid but can't run the risk that it might fail (which it would)... stuck open, no big deal... stuck closed and we have a problem. So I go with the low tech method, and use other low tech devices to fix the issues with the first low tech device. If only the lighting was going to be this easy or cheap!

Whatigot · #8 02-13-2009, 05:31 PM

HEY.
less planning, more reefing.

Seriously, this sounds like a sweet project, hurry it up.

golf nut · #9 02-13-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueAbyss

I'll be using a modified CSD that should empty 1l in about 2s or less... dammit, you figured out my idea!

Well since the cat-is-out-of-the-bag so to speak, I might as well tell you what I bought... I have a length of 1 3/4" ABS and a length of 3/4 " CPVC tube from CDN Tire last night, and a 1 3/4 cap. The idea is that the siphon will be one tube inside the other (which will be capped) and the assembly will be in its own small tank above the display. This will be piped down into a bubble settlling chamber at one end of the tank, and will flow strongly across the top of the tank and less so near the sandbed. I have yet to test my siphon... actually I put the pipes in the corner and haven't touched them. I won't until I get a bucket and some silicone. Then it's on!

I actually did consider using a solenoid but can't run the risk that it might fail (which it would)... stuck open, no big deal... stuck closed and we have a problem. So I go with the low tech method, and use other low tech devices to fix the issues with the first low tech device. If only the lighting was going to be this easy or cheap!

Do you have a pic of the proposed plan?

BlueAbyss · #10 02-13-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myka

Interesting idea, I'll be tagging alone for the ride. That Irian Jaya rock scares me...it has so much green on it! I wonder why J&L isn't stocking Tonga and Fiji anymore...? All their live rock is over $8/lb now. That's steep.

The green doesn't scare me... actually that's one of the attractions for me. Green ocean stuff always has all kind of critters associated with it.

On a side note, I'll order some Vanuatu at the same time... It looks pretty cool, and the wierd shapes will give me something to look at in the 20 gallon. More variety is good too, apparently there's evidence of encrusting corals on the Vanuatu rock... which makes me think sponges and tunicates and such. Interesting pieces will go into the pico, and the leftovers in the 20. No sense wasting good rock.

Yeah I thought it was sort of expensive for live rock, but then I compare it to the live rock I've seen in some shops in the city... that stuff just looks like coral skeletons with algae on it, and it's not that much cheaper at least wasn't where I saw. I want rock with diversity.