'PicoSurge'

[mseepman]

Tonga rock is banned from collection now if I remember correctly.

[BlueAbyss]

Originally Posted by mseepman

Tonga rock is banned from collection now if I remember correctly.

Yes, they've stopped exporting it.

Originally Posted by bignose

Can you define a surge tank for me? I've never heard of that before.

Hmm, well I'm not sure there's a definition for it, really... I would define it, personally and for my own uses, as a tank that is fed it's flow mostly by surge device. I suppose it could be considered a 'tidepool' style tank by some. And lots of flow too, like 50x turnover.

I use the term as a way to describe the planned flow of water through the tank, a (relatively) large volume of water moving in a dominant direction with some flowback but with low force. Or that's the idea anyhow I'm not sure what the turbulence will be like inside the tank with my current ideas... the tiny fishes and shrimps and crabs might get blown away, or that's my fear. I won't know until I build it

[Delphinus]

I toyed with the idea of toilet flapper surge tanks over my 75g some years ago. In the end I discontinued them because the flappers kept getting hung up (a problem with the way I implemented them, not a problem with the idea of a toilet flapper surge tank, per se), and also just because I was sort of disappointed with the amount of flow that came out. I had 2 1-1/2" outputs per tank and it was just as if someone had turned on a pump for 30 seconds. I really wanted a more dramatic "crash" of water but realized I had nowhere near the height to work with for the kind of head pressure that would take.

I started wondering how it would be if, instead of a toilet flapper, one could use an automated valve of some kind. Then you could have it open and close at intervals and probably reduce the amount of air introduced into the tank (unless, of course, the bubbles are something you want - after all most waves do sort of create transient bubbles).

I've also wondered what a Carlson surge tank would look like if you used really large diameter pipe so the tank emptied briskly..

Anyhow, fun stuff, wish I had more time/energy to play around more with this sort of thing. Good luck with your experiment, can't wait to see it in action!

[BlueAbyss]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

I toyed with the idea of toilet flapper surge tanks over my 75g some years ago. In the end I discontinued them because the flappers kept getting hung up (a problem with the way I implemented them, not a problem with the idea of a toilet flapper surge tank, per se), and also just because I was sort of disappointed with the amount of flow that came out. I had 2 1-1/2" outputs per tank and it was just as if someone had turned on a pump for 30 seconds. I really wanted a more dramatic "crash" of water but realized I had nowhere near the height to work with for the kind of head pressure that would take.

I started wondering how it would be if, instead of a toilet flapper, one could use an automated valve of some kind. Then you could have it open and close at intervals and probably reduce the amount of air introduced into the tank (unless, of course, the bubbles are something you want - after all most waves do sort of create transient bubbles).

I've also wondered what a Carlson surge tank would look like if you used really large diameter pipe so the tank emptied briskly..

Anyhow, fun stuff, wish I had more time/energy to play around more with this sort of thing. Good luck with your experiment, can't wait to see it in action!

I'll be using a modified CSD that should empty 1l in about 2s or less... dammit, you figured out my idea!

Well since the cat-is-out-of-the-bag so to speak, I might as well tell you what I bought... I have a length of 1 3/4" ABS and a length of 3/4 " CPVC tube from CDN Tire last night, and a 1 3/4 cap. The idea is that the siphon will be one tube inside the other (which will be capped) and the assembly will be in its own small tank above the display. This will be piped down into a bubble settlling chamber at one end of the tank, and will flow strongly across the top of the tank and less so near the sandbed. I have yet to test my siphon... actually I put the pipes in the corner and haven't touched them. I won't until I get a bucket and some silicone. Then it's on!

I actually did consider using a solenoid but can't run the risk that it might fail (which it would)... stuck open, no big deal... stuck closed and we have a problem. So I go with the low tech method, and use other low tech devices to fix the issues with the first low tech device. If only the lighting was going to be this easy or cheap!

[Whatigot]

HEY.
less planning, more reefing.


Seriously, this sounds like a sweet project, hurry it up.

[BlueAbyss]

Originally Posted by Whatigot

HEY.
less planning, more reefing.


Seriously, this sounds like a sweet project, hurry it up.

Yayaya, I'm workin on it. ETA 3 months. Time me

[Whatigot]

And go!!!

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by BlueAbyss

I'll be using a modified CSD that should empty 1l in about 2s or less... dammit, you figured out my idea!

Well since the cat-is-out-of-the-bag so to speak, I might as well tell you what I bought... I have a length of 1 3/4" ABS and a length of 3/4 " CPVC tube from CDN Tire last night, and a 1 3/4 cap. The idea is that the siphon will be one tube inside the other (which will be capped) and the assembly will be in its own small tank above the display. This will be piped down into a bubble settlling chamber at one end of the tank, and will flow strongly across the top of the tank and less so near the sandbed. I have yet to test my siphon... actually I put the pipes in the corner and haven't touched them. I won't until I get a bucket and some silicone. Then it's on!

I actually did consider using a solenoid but can't run the risk that it might fail (which it would)... stuck open, no big deal... stuck closed and we have a problem. So I go with the low tech method, and use other low tech devices to fix the issues with the first low tech device. If only the lighting was going to be this easy or cheap!

Do you have a pic of the proposed plan?

[BlueAbyss]

Originally Posted by Mr OM

Do you have a pic of the proposed plan?

Not at the moment no... Soon, I'm working it out on paper and will do a full draw-up once I've got everything figured.

I will not be using the toilet flapper, mainly because it will take up waaaay more space than I can alot to the surge system. The surge itself will only be about 1 liter, so I don't need something huge... and the more compact the better. On that note, I've realized that I still will need an emergency drain on the surge tank for me to feel completely safe about it. Though there should never (EVER!) be water running through it, the piping I'll be using will be too big to get blocked by anything that would make it through the pump.

I've tried to minimize the size of the CSD siphon and surge tank(s) but even so the system is looking like there will be parts that are quite tall. Hmm... well, there's some more design work to be done, a couple kinks need to get worked out. I'm on it, don't worry.

More to come when I get the design down. Then I'll have pics of the proposed plan. Or plans. Whatever

[BlueAbyss]

So, I've decided to just modify the trimless 20 gallon tank that I have to produce the tank size that I need. I'm still calling it a pico Essentially, I will be building a tank within a tank. This will allow me to do a couple things...

1. Instant sump! Using the 20 gallon allows me to use the original principal of having a sump system and overflow... And depending on how much water I decide to keep in the sump, I might be able to fit a skimmer in there! The sump will contain the heater, pumps, and all plumbing.

2. The LED lighting system that I'm building will now be fully modular. I'll be basically building mini spotlights, though I haven't decided if I'll be using optics or not... I think at first not. Either way the rack will be mounted at the top of the surge unit... about 8" off the water's surface. The lights themselves I'll probably hang at first, until I figure out how to gimbal them.

3. The surge unit... I've worked out the size... the whole unit will stand 24" tall, including the height of the 20 gallon. Not too shabby, and since the 20 gallon tank itself will form the case for the pico, all plumbing and pipes will be hidden. Eventually... It'll look pretty frankensteiny until the tank is painted or whatever I decide to do... likely skinning. So the 'clean' look I'm going for will come with time.

So this is officially a 'mod' project. I'm cool with that It's still a pico (the original 20 x 8 x 9 still applies). I still get a sump. A better one, in fact, and no worries if something leaks! Everything stays modular and able to move to a different tank if (when?) the time comes and that happens. I might be able to attempt my passive skimmer now! Probably not worth it on a 5.5 gallon display though