100% Certified Cyanide Free Reef Fish for Sale.

[chandigz]

some shops also import from MAC certified wholesalers out of the US (theres lots in LA) The only thing is that there is a limited number of species that MAC certifies.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So there is a MAC certified importer here in Richmond (suburb of Vancouver for those of you who are from other provinces) but I have no idea yet where he sends his fish...I have emailed asking for a retailer.

I would assume he distributes them throughout Canada but I have yet to find a retailer here in town that does buy MAC certified fish I am guessing they cost a bit more and most LFS are not willing/caring enough to spend the money. I would love to be able to walk into the shops and see MAC certified tanks. I can understand not devoting an entire store to them but a few tanks would be nice.

Heres an interesting question then...

Forget price for now. If you had the choice to buy MAC fish (humanely caught with certification) but had to limit the species you kept OR buy any species usually available but were taking a chance the fish may be inhumanely caught, which would you buy?

For me its an easy decision. I would have no problem limiting what species I kept if I knew it was for the good of the fish/ocean.

[justinl]

im with you on this one as well. some species just don't belong in the hobby. simple as that, live with it.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by justinl

im with you on this one as well. some species just don't belong in the hobby. simple as that, live with it.

Oh I can live with it

The problem is, people want what they want and we live in a society where we get what we want.

After reading the MAC site, I have to say I am very disappointed that more retailers are not willing to bring in MAC fish. Its a great program and you would think in a country like Canada, it would be used much more.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Oh and for those of you saying certified cyanide free fish are not possible, read the site.

http://www.aquariumcouncil.org/index.html

No its not perfect but its a start and a pretty darn good chance these fish have never come in contact with cyanide or any inhumane collecting. They are tracked the entire way.

[chandigz]

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

So there is a MAC certified importer here in Richmond (suburb of Vancouver for those of you who are from other provinces) but I have no idea yet where he sends his fish...I have emailed asking for a retailer.

I would assume he distributes them throughout Canada but I have yet to find a retailer here in town that does buy MAC certified fish I am guessing they cost a bit more and most LFS are not willing/caring enough to spend the money. I would love to be able to walk into the shops and see MAC certified tanks. I can understand not devoting an entire store to them but a few tanks would be nice.

Heres an interesting question then...

Forget price for now. If you had the choice to buy MAC fish (humanely caught with certification) but had to limit the species you kept OR buy any species usually available but were taking a chance the fish may be inhumanely caught, which would you buy?

For me its an easy decision. I would have no problem limiting what species I kept if I knew it was for the good of the fish/ocean.

The thing is stores can't market fish as MAC Certified unless they are certified themselves. Our local store has brought in (for stock) and will special order MAC fish. Many stores have looked into the certification, but found the whole thing was a little hokey, costly(for smaller stores or a few tanks), and to much of a hassel(constant endless paperwork). MAC has a good thing going but they need to streamline the whole process along the whole supply line. I know of several exporters that have given up on MAC due to inconsistancies in their policies and process. They still maintain MAC's values and hope to re-establish certification once MAC gets their act together.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

I would assume he distributes them throughout Canada but I have yet to find a retailer here in town that does buy MAC certified fish I am guessing they cost a bit more and most LFS are not willing/caring enough to spend the money. I would love to be able to walk into the shops and see MAC certified tanks. I can understand not devoting an entire store to them but a few tanks would be nice.

Heres an interesting question then...

Forget price for now. If you had the choice to buy MAC fish (humanely caught with certification) but had to limit the species you kept OR buy any species usually available but were taking a chance the fish may be inhumanely caught, which would you buy?

I've brought in lots of MAC certified fish over the years working in different shops. I've seen lists from the wholesaler you guys are talking about, they don't usually cost a lot more but there isn't a very large selection of species. I've marked the fish I've brought in as MAC certified, nobody seemed to care. I tend to agree as I didn't see much of a difference in quality.

Once you look into it further MAC is pretty much a joke anyway. They sure spent a lot of money but they haven't accomplished much more than distributing paperwork.

[ProReef]

We buy all of our fish exclusively from a MAC certified wholesaler. And yes, there is a huge price difference between transhipped fish and our particular wholesaler. We make very little on fish because we are competing with stores that buy from transships, but we are extremely satisfied with the quality.

I'm planning on starting a thread regarding our fish supplier, the quality, my experience in the industry, and our acclimation methods when we've gathered more detailed information. But in the meantime, here's some email correspondance between us and our supplier that you may find interesting:

From: Sales@ProgressiveReef.com [mailto:sales@progressivereef.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:30 AM
To: Eric
Subject: fish quality



Hey Eric,



I'd like some information to tell to my customers regarding the quality of our fish. Could you think me up some nice things to say about you guys?


-------------------------------------------------

From: Eric
To: Sales@ProgressiveReef.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: fish quality



Happy to



You can start by saying that our fish are acclimated using the best electronic controlled ph system available. We also medicate and quarantine our fish during the acclimation process. Then, we aggressively feed our fish the day after arrival and on a day-to-day basis using our own live brine shrimp that is hatched and enriched right here at SDC.



We also feed daily, a plethora of foods all targeting each specific specie to ensure the healthiest quality of fish possible.



How’s that?



Eric


---------------------------------

From: Sales@ProgressiveReef.com [mailto:sales@progressivereef.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:43 PM
To: Eric
Subject: Re: fish quality



That's good, but details are better. What separates you from other wholesalers? How confident are you that your collectors aren't using cyanide? I noticed some markings on your boxes that I thought indicated you guys were concerned with sustainable collection practices...etc. Give me your best sales pitch, as much info as possible.


----------------------------


Well….those things I mentioned ARE what separate us from the other wholesalers. The other wholesalers don’t raise their own foods, or feed the fish like we do. They don’t acclimate their fish and quarantine them like we do. We are Mac Certified…not sure that means much….but most other wholesalers are not.



We can’t guarantee that our fish are not collected from the philipines or bali without drugs, but we can tell you that we use only the best suppliers that consistently ship fish to us with less than 5% mortality. We have visited our suppliers (others don’t do that) to make sure their facilities are clean and disease free….



We have participated in a three year study with Oregon State University and did a thorough study on shipping diseases, when no other company was interested. We sampled hundreds of fish during the study, and then traveled to Bali with the scientists from the University to further and complete the study.



Anything else specific you can think of?



Eric

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

^^^Great to hear! Thats what Im talking about!

I like how honest he sounds. Not going to make guarantees that he he can't keep (cyanide) but this is exactly the kind of attitude I wish other wholesalers would have. No the situation would still not be perfect but its a step in the right direction. If its not done, this hobby will disappear one day. Its not sustainable how things are now (which is not just the fault of the hobby though by any means...there are much worse issues in our oceans right now).

I understand in the end its a business. My fiance is starting up a cosmetics line, so we know all about trying to make a profit and keeping costs down. BUT we are not talking about inanimate objects here...these are living creatures, not eye shadows or DVD's. You can't approach this kind of business the same.

IMO if you cannot take the time to make sure you do all you can to ensure the well being of the fish that are being sold, you should find a new career. There are plenty of business opportunities out there where you don't have to care about your product and can make more money than you would selling fish!

I applaude this wholesaler and Progressive Reef for using them! Certainly is progressive, IMO

[Aquatic Addictions]

I can say first hand that at a bare minimum I know 3 of my suppliers do NOT use chemicals in their process of fish collection or storing. I do not order from one until I have made the journey to see first hand and meet them face to face spending minumum7-10 days there watching everything. I can say this first hand as I have been to see three of them personally in their respective countries.
Finding a good supplier is hard specially when you see things in these locations you would see no where else in the world. The only way to "ensure" your collection practices/packing/keeping of these fish is to see it first hand.

As for "certified" it is simply a money grab situation as there is no policing the standards they ask for or require for MAC certification . It is nice as a thought of what it could be if carried out properly....but no one would be able to afford the livestock anymore with the extra costs associated with governing the industry to those standards and keeping people honest.

Just my opinion though.

Dan