I am officially BROKE, and ? about ethics in captive fish.

my2rotties · #1 12-10-2008, 07:43 PM

You are totally right, now go tell your wife you were actually right about something today...

Lately my husband has been right about many things, and I don't know quite what to do about it.

I love the puffer very much even though he is like a kid in school, staring out the window. I know he will see me as the sucker that I am, and know he needs to adjust. My calling in life is to be a "fixer", I always want everybody happy, and go through huge lengths to try to accomplish this. After Ed died on me, I am still raw. I did everything possible and still I could not save him. When bad things happen in my tank I blame myself since it is my JOB to make sure things are always perfect. I still have no clue as to what happened, and cannot learn from it which saddens me. We are supposed to learn from our losses and this will always be a mystery so I am jaded about the new fabulous tank. However I managed to move forward, and have never been a quitter. I just find it takes longer for me to brush myself off and get into the saddle again. I am older and falling on my face hurts more then it used to.

I am sad he did not make it, but now I can try to help other fish have a decent life in captivity. I just do not understand why humans must capture and possess everything. However all of us are here because we love the beauty nature has provided and want to give them the best that we can...

As for the large tang. I am not going to buy him... I don't want to bring home a fish and constantly feel he is not getting everything he needs. Our tanks are works of art and we want them to be positive and joyful. Like someone else said, buying a fish because I feel sorry for it is not the right thing to do. It is not my fault he was caught and laws are not in place to prevent large fish from being captured. To me this fish would not be a showpiece, as he would take up my entire tank and still have no room to swim.

Maybe some day a fellow reefer will need a good home for a big fish and I will help him out. I have more then enough room. Too bad greenspottedpuffer is so far away, or I would have all his fish by now. I know when it is meant to be, it will happen. I just wanted to reward my husband for all the time and money he has set forth in building this tank. I am very proud of him and his efforts.

This forum is the best and I love the people that are members. You are all a great bunch of people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trigger Man

I think the way most of us deal with having our fish is that we believe that we are giving our fish the best that we are able to do, and as long as we've done the research and try as hard as we can that is all that we can do. I think your puffer needs time to get adjusted to it's new surroundings and you need to be able to enjoy your new puffer without thinking about the bad stuff. Remember this hobby is supposed to be enjoyable and even relaxing (as we all know not always the case), so I figure once I make a decision about a purchase that I have researched why not enjoy. There is always a bad side to everything, it's the good that sometimes gets overlooked. From all your concern your puffer is lucky to have someone that discerning to take care of it, now enjoy getting to know your new addition.

GreenSpottedPuffer · #2 12-10-2008, 08:23 PM

You guys have all touched on great points. This hobby is selfish and anyone who says differently is blind. That doesn't mean people should stop keeping fish

I think there are just as many good points to the hobby as bad...maybe more even.

Fish are very good at adapting and they're survival instincts are amazing at times. We have to remember that as much as we like to give our fish human emotion or traits (anthropomorphism) they just do not have them. He may be looking out the window and bored in your mind but its not the same as a person being bored. He is most likely just thinking of food

Well I would imagine he is still quite stressed from all the moves lately but that will pass.

The longer I have kept fish, the more I make decisions right for the FISH and not myself. Thats why I have now moved towards smaller more suitable fish for aquariums. I have actually been amazed by what I have been missing too! Wow there are so many incredible little fish out there. I am not saying I think no one should keep tangs or big fish, I certainly think its fine in the right sized tank but more people need to have the thought process you have about this tang. He does need a home but if the store is able to sell large tangs for $300 very fast, they will keep doing it. If that $300 tang sits there for a long time, as sad as that is for him, it may save other large ones as the store may not be as quick to bring in large tangs that don't sell...in theory. We all know it doesn't work that way or we would never see these tangs in stores.

I really do wish people would stop buying them and stores would make them a special order for people with 300G + tanks. Thats human nature of ryou though...we need the biggest ones we can possibly get...North American nature anyways.

GreenSpottedPuffer · #3 12-10-2008, 08:27 PM

Incidentally, I saw a 12" Sailfin in a Big Al's. Actually they must have had 3 different Sailfins over 10". Very sad to see such beautiful fish taken from the ocean.

Obviously young fish will adapt so much better to a long life in an aquarium which is why these guys are so sad to see. There is a world of difference in my mind between a 12" Sailfin that has grown up in a 200G aquarium and a 12" Sailfin that has just come from the ocean to live in a 200G. The one raised in a tank doesn't know any different. I guess thats why tank raised fishes do so well and IME are so tough.

my2rotties · #4 12-10-2008, 08:58 PM

I readily agree with you there. When we get young fish, they grow and thrive as captives. I have only been into this hobby for a year now (I often think of all the other cool stuff such as food and toilet paper I could buy instead of tank stuff). It is addictive but I a happy to say my addicition is fish keeping instead of substance abuse. At least I have something to show for, although last week I hit the Jamacian rum pretty hard.

I know Gryphon is an animal and probably does not think too much about a lot of things, but I do think he remembers his old life. Mind you I see he found a little cave and is happily napping in there, which makes me happy. He eats and sleeps which means he is content. When I said he looks like a bored school I was being funny. You are probably right, he was thinking of a big fat shrimp or something. At least he has something to pass his time and entertain him. When my dogs run by outside I see him perk up to see what they are doing. I like the fact that he has brains enough to have interst in our world like we have interest in theirs. I know you love puffers because they have human qualities which turn them into pets. It helps us relate to them as individuals.

I have yet to grow a large tank raised fish myself. I thought to go with a little puffer at Wai's but Gryphon was so awesome, so I will have to grow a different puffer or tang or something. My hubsand is dying for an Archilles tang, and when I learn more, I will get one for him. Wai's wants $450 for one and I have to special order it. I just am leery about that since I want to know the fish will adapt to captive life. I like to watch fish when they come into a store and stay there for a long time. Gryphon has been at the store for a few months, so I can feel safe bringing him home.

I like your choices of a clean up crew and will look into those. I really love gobies and blennies and need a few for the bottom. I have so many possibilities for fish and do want many small ones so long as they do not ge eaten. I lost my mind for the big tang for a bit since I felt sorry for him. If I got that fish I really could not have any more. I would imagine a fish of that size would put a huge bio load on my new system as well. Gryphon is a swine and he is only one fish.

Still wish you lived in Alberta, I would bring the rum over to your house and buy some of your fish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Incidentally, I saw a 12" Sailfin in a Big Al's. Actually they must have had 3 different Sailfins over 10". Very sad to see such beautiful fish taken from the ocean.

Obviously young fish will adapt so much better to a long life in an aquarium which is why these guys are so sad to see. There is a world of difference in my mind between a 12" Sailfin that has grown up in a 200G aquarium and a 12" Sailfin that has just come from the ocean to live in a 200G. The one raised in a tank doesn't know any different. I guess thats why tank raised fishes do so well and IME are so tough.

GreenSpottedPuffer · #5 12-10-2008, 09:03 PM

And I would welcome the rum and love for my dogface to live with Gtyphon. You are certainly right about puffers becoming pets and having human qualities. They are very curious little guys and can be so much fun. In the long run he will be a very lucky fish!

Quote:

Originally Posted by my2rotties

I readily agree with you there. When we get young fish, they grow and thrive as captives. I have only been into this hobby for a year now (I often think of all the other cool stuff such as food and toilet paper I could buy instead of tank stuff). It is addictive but I a happy to say my addicition is fish keeping instead of substance abuse. At least I have something to show for, although last week I hit the Jamacian rum pretty hard.

I know Gryphon is an animal and probably does not think too much about a lot of things, but I do think he remembers his old life. Mind you I see he found a little cave and is happily napping in there, which makes me happy. He eats and sleeps which means he is content. When I said he looks like a bored school I was being funny. You are probably right, he was thinking of a big fat shrimp or something. At least he has something to pass his time and entertain him. When my dogs run by outside I see him perk up to see what they are doing. I like the fact that he has brains enough to have interst in our world like we have interest in theirs. I know you love puffers because they have human qualities which turn them into pets. It helps us relate to them as individuals.

I have yet to grow a large tank raised fish myself. I thought to go with a little puffer at Wai's but Gryphon was so awesome, so I will have to grow a different puffer or tang or something. My hubsand is dying for an Archilles tang, and when I learn more, I will get one for him. Wai's wants $450 for one and I have to special order it. I just am leery about that since I want to know the fish will adapt to captive life. I like to watch fish when they come into a store and stay there for a long time. Gryphon has been at the store for a few months, so I can feel safe bringing him home.

I like your choices of a clean up crew and will look into those. I really love gobies and blennies and need a few for the bottom. I have so many possibilities for fish and do want many small ones so long as they do not ge eaten. I lost my mind for the big tang for a bit since I felt sorry for him. If I got that fish I really could not have any more. I would imagine a fish of that size would put a huge bio load on my new system as well. Gryphon is a swine and he is only one fish.

Still wish you lived in Alberta, I would bring the rum over to your house and buy some of your fish.

my2rotties · #6 12-10-2008, 11:27 PM

Okay this puffer rocks! I stripped to my shorts so I could rebuild a tunnel for my new little buddy. Of course now I am rescaping everything and trying to catch the evil damsel fish (he was really good until I moved him to the 260, free to good home if you catch him).

I have Gryphon's tunnel set so the open side looks out the window and he has a peep hole on the other side. Well, being soaked to the skin in my skivvies was worth it. He loves it and is watching me do my work and such from his peep hole. I freaked out over $150 for a fish but he was worth every penny. He was in a bare tank for so long you can tell he is enjoying some privacy. I think he enjoys watching the crazy human sliding on the wet tile more then I enjoy him.

So I go back to wading past my armpits in my ocean. I needed to take a breather since I was getting mad trying to stack rock just right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

And I would welcome the rum and love for my dogface to live with Gtyphon. You are certainly right about puffers becoming pets and having human qualities. They are very curious little guys and can be so much fun. In the long run he will be a very lucky fish!

Trigger Man · #7 12-10-2008, 11:36 PM

good to here that Gryphon is doing better, and if you ever decide to get a achilles do not pay 450 for it, there are many places in Calgary that will get you one for less then half that price, but remember they are one of the tougher fish to keep, so you will need to do a lot of research on them first.

my2rotties · #8 12-15-2008, 06:22 PM

I visited two LFS stores and one of them had large captive fish. I can honestly say these fish looked very happy and well adjusted. This store was so helpful and knowledgeable, and made us happy to spend money. All the fish were social and begging for food readily and the big fish had big tanks to swim freely.

Both stores had people right beside my hubby and I, and I had to ask them help other patient clients while we contemplated livestock. These stores were so helpful, I have no need to shop anywhere else to be honest. I have my one store where I love the owner and he clicks with us so well. Now I have these two others as well.

I am glad I had PMs to check these two other stores out although they were very out of my way to go there. They are well worth the commute.

Although I still feel large fish should be in the wild, I now know some LFSs do care about the fish, and the homes they go to. I feel bad for judging every LFS as being the same now and apoligize for prematurely making statements. I know these stores will not sell me fish if they feel I cannot care for them properly, and that is a very good thing.

My hubby bought one of his "dream" fish, a large Emperor Angel, and I felt comfortable for him to do so. I know my polyps might not have a chnce but we were told this and hubby said he would buy them for "Quinn" to eat if needed. However Quinn eats pellets readily and is so happy in my tank so I have no regrets.

This whole experience does prove to me that fish do care about where they are, and how they are kept. I have never seen such happy fish aside of my own. So I am not totally wrong in some statements, but it does depend on the LFS you shop at.

This hobby has taught me so much about many things, and also that personal issues and feelings are not always warranted. I will not beat myself up over this hobby any longer but I will not shop at stores that make me feel this way.

Please don't beat me up over coming forward and saying I was wrong. I feel I should apologize for judging, and I really am sorry about it. I am very new to this hobby and just feel I should ask questions when I don't really know myself. To some of the other members that bashed me in a different post, please do not reply as it will not be productive in the end.

Sorry to anyone I did offend as it was not trying to flame anyone. I just saw things I did not feel were right, and now I know not every LFS is created equally.

SeaHorse_Fanatic · #9 12-10-2008, 11:52 PM

Sometimes I think my fish eat better than I do.

The puffers & now the Niger Trigger (thanks again Justin) eat FD shrimp & krill, as well as tiger prawns, shore crabs, and even blue crabs (my wife just bought some for her Poofy from T&T market). The FD Krill works out to $30-40 a pound I think, which is far more than anything I pay for my own food. We also drive all the way to Tswassesen & other shoreline places to collect little crabs for them to munch on from under the rocks at low tide.

Yes, while these fish would probably prefer to be out in the wild, at least in our tanks, they are usually safe from predators and get breakfast in bed (so to speak).

Anthony