Electrical question

sphelps · #1 07-28-2008, 06:10 PM

I really don't like to get into this kind of discussion as everyone always seems to have various opinions and comments and no conclusion in ever resolved.

However to contradict myself I would first off never use a ground probe. Ground probes create current from stray voltage, once you have current you have danger. Saying that you're safe because the ground probe is always a better ground than yourself is false, if you come between the voltage source and ground probe you could be in a lot of trouble, much more than if the ground probe wasn't there. Secondly almost all electrical components are going to create a small amount of stray voltage, however this is harmless and will not trigger a GFI. Add a ground probe and now you've given all those components potential, meaning they have somewhere to send that voltage and sometimes will send more because of it. This results in a loss of current which can trigger a GFI. Some say great, then I'll know when something is wrong. But what happens when it triggers on that long weekend when you're out of town??

Basically argue all you want but you really shouldn't use both a grounding probe and a GFCI together. It's unnecessary and they can interfere with each other. GFCIs are designed to trigger the second current is lost, it will trigger before you're zapped, you do not need a ground probe.

Delphinus · #2 07-28-2008, 06:24 PM

I didn't think I was arguing.

Not sure where you think I was, not my intent at all.

If it's better to run without probes then so be it. I gave my reasoning and the disclaimer that this was how I understood it - if the reasoning is faulty then I appreciate the gesture of being corrected. So what you're saying is a "ground fault" is an unbalance of hot and neutral? Ie., it doesn't mean there's current on the ground wire?

One point though, I would rather lose a tank on a long weekend than my life. **If** it really came down to that. But it's comforting to note that the absence of a ground probe doesn't mean you're at risk.

I just don't like being electrocuted is all.

Peace?

Monti-Man · #3 07-28-2008, 06:42 PM

I am an electrical engineer and I will tell you that a ground probe is neccessary, that is why it is built in to everything from house to idustrial sites as syncrude.
You are always better having one

sphelps · #4 07-28-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monti-Man

I am an electrical engineer and I will tell you that a ground probe is neccessary, that is why it is built in to everything from house to idustrial sites as syncrude.
You are always better having one

Though some that is true, I fail to see how the ground probe in your house relates to ones in question. All house grounds are connected directly to appliances, they are not located on one side of the house, isolated so when a short occurs it has to travel through the air towards the isolated pole. All your aquariums electrical components are already grounded like every house hold item. You'll have to go more into detail than I'm an engineer and that's how it is.

Monti-Man · #5 07-28-2008, 07:31 PM

I am not here to debate, but for safety sake use the gorund rod or plate or whatever. If you want an explanation give me your email and i will send you the proof, also the CEC code of practice in regards to this question also the CSA position on GfCI. I am not here to debate on this thread as you seem to be, take my advice or don't, but i would make sure your are using one.

sphelps · #6 07-28-2008, 07:46 PM

If you have "proof" relating to why people should use a ground probe in there aquarium I'm sure many people would appreciate you posting it here. I still don't see how all these codes you're referring to relate to aquariums.

I'm sorry if you feel I'm trying to "debate" this topic but when I give an opinion relating to such a serious topic I just feel it's a good to give reasoning. Call it what you want but how can you expect people to take you seriously if you can't give them explanation?

Article published by that Georgia Tech professor

EmilyB · #7 07-28-2008, 07:56 PM

Monti-Man, my husband is an electrician and he would agree with you. I have been given crap often for not having a ground probe in a sump as well as the tank and what-not..

Prior to that, I've been drilled several times because of a cracked heater, etc.

Tony, just out of curiosity, is the pump leaking voltage a Sedra? We had two Sedras do that to us.

Black Phantom · #8 07-28-2008, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphelps

If you have "proof" relating to why people should use a ground probe in there aquarium I'm sure many people would appreciate you posting it here. I still don't see how all these codes you're referring to relate to aquariums.

I'm sorry if you feel I'm trying to "debate" this topic but when I give an opinion relating to such a serious topic I just feel it's a good to give reasoning. Call it what you want but how can you expect people to take you seriously if you can't give them explanation?

Article published by that Georgia Tech professor

Thanks for the great article. It has answered a lot of my questions. It's always good to get an expert opinion.
His tank and Bio are very impressive. How many people design and build their own computer systems to run the tank lighting.
Very nice

Doug · #9 07-28-2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphelps

If you have "proof" relating to why people should use a ground probe in there aquarium I'm sure many people would appreciate you posting it here.

Well I,m not an electrician or engineer but here,s my "proof".

{and in all fairness to Steve, I dont have a clue, but have read both sides of the ground probe argument, many times on many boards}.

Leaky Tunze stream pump. No ground probe, shocked when contact with halide pendant and water or as in my case, lightning arcing from the reflector to my forehead.

Ground probe in tank or sump, no shock. But then I would never had know my pump was bad.

Tony, my GFI never tripped at first when I was shocked, but if you remember the thread it did later and also the GFI/Arc Fault. This was after the ground probe was back in but no idea if that had anything to do with it then tripping the GFI circuits or does it take a certain amount of voltage leak to do so ??

Black Phantom · #10 07-28-2008, 07:35 PM

By code you have to have a GFCI in your bathroom in case you drop your hair dryer into the sink full of water. Or reach into the water when holding your hair dryer.
Obviously there is no ground probe in your sink. Isn't it the same thing with your aquarium?
I'm really in the dark here and just don't want to find myself floating over my lifeless body on my way to who knows where

Hopefully up