Maybe quitting Zeovit

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Oceanic

I completely disagree with this statement, the ocean in its most pristine places is naturaly an Ultra Low Nutrient and naturaly bright enviroment using the power of the sun. Some of the reefs are comprised of miles and miles of shallow ultra clear water with prodominant coral colors that would put most tanks to shame. It is incorrect to think brown is the only "natural" color or the most common color of the natural reef. By using Zeovit or other similar pricipals we are only trying to replicate the fact that our corals are not stuck in an enclosed glass box.

I never said super colourful corals don't exist just that they are in the minority. As a matter of fact your third pic illustrates my point for me.



Compare that to something like this month's TOTM at reefkeeping mag.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...totm/index.php

Quite a difference no?

Why would an animal dependent on photosynthesis invest some of it's energy in creating so many pigments that block PAR? It must benefit from it in some way and the only way that makes sense is the same reason you tan when you spend time in the sun, protection.

Look up some of Dana Riddle's articles on coral pigments for more explanation.

Originally Posted by Oceanic

Also remember that the ocean does not have powerfull actinic lights poised over top of it; however, it does have the ultra power of the sun sitting somewhere around the 5500K range. Stick a 5500K rated 1000 watt light over your tank then see what the colors look like! One would be pretty surprised how dull they would look.

Well the sun happens to generate plenty of light in the 420nm range. Due to the water this light is moving through, shorter wavelengths are well represented at the depths you find photosynthetic coral.


I never said I disagreed with this methodology or others like it but I don't think the idea of promoting it as "natural" made any sense. If it works for you then great but don't try and tell me it's wonderful because it's "just like nature" or some such BS. Save it for the granola munchers in the smelly sandals. I'm not paying $30 for 2 grams of potassium with a pretty label on it.

[Patrick1]

midgetwaiter you work at a LFS?? by chance

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Patrick1

midgetwaiter you work at a LFS?? by chance

Yeps I do. We don't sell any pro biotic systems currently but we may soon.

Keep in mind though that what I said here is my opinion and does not reflect my employer's etc etc.

[Oceanic]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

Yeps I do. We don't sell any pro biotic systems currently but we may soon.

Keep in mind though that what I said here is my opinion and does not reflect my employer's etc etc.

[Patrick1]

well I am not a big fan of fighting on the internet. Zeo is Zeo like it hate it. I think the point of this thread was to help out Drew with his zeo system. There are so many factors to a reef tank, lights, temp, etc, etc and I think the thread is getting hijacked by us.. Drew if you need help with your system just contact Albert he knows what he is doing and helped me with my system. The biggest change to my lousy start was cleaning and scrubbing out all the hairy goop then things ran a lot smoother.

Once you get in the habit and get things running it goes pretty smoothly even if your lazy like me and miss a few days. When I started zeo I was told flat out that it was no replacement for basic tank care cleaning etc. If you don't have good skills to begin with, then zeo is going to make things worse. If you have the basics down and want to improve your system to your tastes then zeo offers some things. I have seen zeo tanks with brown coral and I have seen some people with zeo tanks with pastels. Same with systems with out. I have established a tank that is very stable and looks the way I want it. I used zeo to get it that way. Are there other ways to do it I am sure there is, but for me zeo has paid off.

[Oceanic]

Originally Posted by Patrick1

well I am not a big fan of fighting on the internet. Zeo is Zeo like it hate it. I think the point of this thread was to help out Drew with his zeo system. There are so many factors to a reef tank, lights, temp, etc, etc and I think the thread is getting hijacked by us.. Drew if you need help with your system just contact Albert he knows what he is doing and helped me with my system. The biggest change to my lousy start was cleaning and scrubbing out all the hairy goop then things ran a lot smoother.

Once you get in the habit and get things running it goes pretty smoothly even if your lazy like me and miss a few days. When I started zeo I was told flat out that it was no replacement for basic tank care cleaning etc. If you don't have good skills to begin with, then zeo is going to make things worse. If you have the basics down and want to improve your system to your tastes then zeo offers some things. I have seen zeo tanks with brown coral and I have seen some people with zeo tanks with pastels. Same with systems with out. I have established a tank that is very stable and looks the way I want it. I used zeo to get it that way. Are there other ways to do it I am sure there is, but for me zeo has paid off.

Who said anyone was fighting, this is good conversation!

[christyf5]

Originally Posted by Oceanic

Who said anyone was fighting, this is good conversation!

Ditto! This kind of discussion/debate is awesome!

[Oceanic]

[/quote][/quote]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

I never said super colourful corals don't exist just that they are in the minority. As a matter of fact your third pic illustrates my point for me.



Compare that to something like this month's TOTM at reefkeeping mag.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...totm/index.php

Quite a difference no?

Why would an animal dependent on photosynthesis invest some of it's energy in creating so many pigments that block PAR? It must benefit from it in some way and the only way that makes sense is the same reason you tan when you spend time in the sun, protection.

Look up some of Dana Riddle's articles on coral pigments for more explanation.



Well the sun happens to generate plenty of light in the 420nm range. Due to the water this light is moving through, shorter wavelengths are well represented at the depths you find photosynthetic coral.


I never said I disagreed with this methodology or others like it but I don't think the idea of promoting it as "natural" made any sense. If it works for you then great but don't try and tell me it's wonderful because it's "just like nature" or some such BS. Save it for the granola munchers in the smelly sandals. I'm not paying $30 for 2 grams of potassium with a pretty label on it.

Good point; however, take a frag off each coral you see in that pic and put them in an LFS, which coral are people most likely to buy? I happen to think that most of us populate our tanks by choice with the specimens that have a natural tendency to be more colorful than the next average coral. The picture does illustrate lots of browns and this is exactly why I posted it.

The corals pictured are all at about the same depth and receive the same amount of light; however, some are colorful and some are not. At the depth pictured the corals are getting less light in the 420nm range, the deeper they are the more light in the blue range they are getting (albeit less par).

Take these naturally colorful corals and flood them with high intensity blue spectrum light matched with bright 10k-20k halides, throw in excellent water conditions in regards to low nutrient saturation and what do you have?

TOTM at reefkeeping mag

Are these corals naturally colorful? I think the ones we choose happen to be. Remember that many of these corals are aqua cultured in the Ocean on big racks, they are then collected and shipped, strange how they show up with great color without having the opportunity to spend some time in a Zeovit tank first.


In regards to the suppliments, ie Potassium,

I agree that it is sometimes ridiculous to spend $30 for a bottle of Potassium. There are alternatives to the more frugal type persons like yourself. Many people are successfully using Potassium chloride from here....


http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails....1&pid=777&at=0

Essentially it is the same thing from what I understand. For those that do the research there are almost always cheaper options without the fancy labels.