Pet Store Supports Puppy Mills

Now I have done my research, years of it.
We need to be very careful of the words we choose!
This is an intresting thread. I would like to point out a few things though. When you use the term "puppy mill" you are enpowering a movement of animal rights activists that are lobbying (to be political) for the complete liberation of animals. They made up the term! No more animals of any type in any sort of way are to be kept by humans. No more hamburgers, no more medical advancment, no more guide dogs for the blind, no more puppies in the window, no more FISH, no more CORAL. Everytime you use that term as a way of defining a sub standard breeding facility you are helping to support their mandate.

I would also like to touch on another point quickly. Everyone seems so eager to support the Humane Society (S.P.C.A) As I do as well and I would agree that it is better to have them then not, however the SPCA works with the AFAC (Alberta Farm Animal Care), in an effort with ALPS (Alberta Livestock Protection System) in an effort to HELP feed lots and factory farms in Alberta reconize the importance of husbandry of the animals. Hypocritical? The very idea that they can be associated with this type of industry and yet be looked at as a moral staring point for animal rights folks just blows my mind!

Anyway I am new here and there is tons of cool things in here! Great job!

[dsaundry]

Take a look at this....even dogs with issues can bring happiness to their owners.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...79276&hl=en-CA

hope this link works

[kari]

Cats are inferior to dogs.
Cats dig in their litter box and then walk on your food preparation surfaces.

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by reef_raf

And there is the problem. Now, I said a reputable breeder does not sell to pet stores. Wolf sold to pet stores, and that, IMO, disqualifies him as a reputable breeder. He has since stopped doing that. Now my last phrase was that in time, he may or may not become a reputable breeder. If he continues breeding, and gains a good reputation, he could become a reputable breeder. And he no longer sells to pet stores, which meets one of the criteria. While he did sell, then no, he did not meet my definition of "reputable". That can change.
Now please stop trying to twist all of this for the sake of arguing.

Do you feel like you're banging your head on a wall, I know I would if I was you! I hoped you had a nice walk with your dog, and thanks for stating the obvious.

[wolf_bluejay]

Well, according to most "certified" beeders I was a puppy mill. There seems to be a lot of resentment between "backyard" breeders and CKC breeders.
But, the last time I was at a CKC breeder, they had multiple dogs, and did breed the dogs for the MONEY. However I have also seen a real "puppy mill". There were 10 dogs being bred and cross bred. the puppy's we fed the minimal amount of food to keep them alive, ya know, to cut costs down.

Outside of papers, what is all that different between puppy mills and registered breeders --- intent and love for the animals. The puppies we bred always had enough food and attention that they were not aggressive.
The mother of our pups did come "rescued" from a mill. She always fought over food (when there is not enough, dogs will fight over it).

The only reason we stopped selling to the pet store is that with Chihuahua's there is quite a selection of owners to pick from (one has a little helmet and leather jacket to ride on her Harley with her).

There was responsible genetic/family tree selection involved with breeding, almost all the owners we sold to are aware of who in this city are "family" and who not to breed with. However, we routinely run into people that ask to breed with the male that we had (passed away now), without asking about family history. They even seem to get upset when we tell them that they really should not breed bother and sister together.

We bred because raising puppies is an enjoyable hobby, after 5 batches the mother "retired".

With all that said, once you have actually SEEN a puppy mill you will be much more careful about what you call one. They are a disturbing sight, and yes there is places that have stacks of cages with dogs that are allowed out only to breed, and the food is in short supply. Compared to this, I would NEVER call your average backyard breeder a puppy mill.

BTW, usually puppy mills will bring the dogs away from "home" to show them, because if you see where they are raised, not only would you not buy from them, but call the SPCA as well. Always ask to see the dogs and the parents as well when buying a dog.

And "certified" breeders calling backyard breeders "puppy mills" is just propaganda to keep their prices and profit up. How is that intent any different than the puppy mills other than a piece of paper.

The bottom line is that puppy mills are in fact rare. Stores will not by from them, most people will not either without some scam (having the dogs at a different house to show, bringing the dogs to you, etc.) The way to stop them is pretty much what we all do -- stop buying from them.
And the main point I was trying to make is that OWNERS sometimes treat their pets no better than the mills. That is why we stopped selling to the stores. Not because the stores we behaving badly, but because they really are unable to "screen" those that buy.

Originally Posted by kari

Cats are inferior to dogs.
Cats dig in their litter box and then walk on your food preparation surfaces.

Dog's eat their own, and other animals feces, then think its okay to lick your face. I'd have to say both cats and dogs have their flaws.

Originally Posted by kari

Cats are inferior to dogs.
Cats dig in their litter box and then walk on your food preparation surfaces.

This is why you coat the counters with honey and powdered habeneros or other hot as hell concoctions... little buggers learn real quick, got so sick of the damn cats jumping on the counters the second you turn your back, and they damn well know they are not allowed to cuz when you turn and face them(even with a smile on your face) they run for cover cuz they know they are not supposed to be there. Zeus(my great dane)is not allowed to enter the kitchen, and I can put a steak on the floor by his bed and he will stare at it, but he knows its not his to touch unless I say so.....
Im not sure if "cats are inferior to dogs" is the proper statement...???
but they sure are dissobedient,vindictive,sly little buggers
lol!!!!!!

[wolf_bluejay]

Just as a quick little note, I do NOT consider selling to a pet store to be a mistake. If you read what I posted before, the store DID make a very good effort to ensure we did meet their "requirements" before buying the puppies. And there were very strict.

I bred for the pure enjoyment of it, and it was much more enjoyable to sell the puppies myself. The whole "reputable" breeder thing is just a people that forked over MONEY, to become certified trying to protect their investment. What makes a reputable breeder?
One that raises dogs because they love them? My wife cried every time one of the babies left, and usually followed up with the owner. Does a registered breeder love their dogs? or are they all about proft just like the puppy mills, just with fancier cages?

Reputable!?! Reputation? iIf you have a reputation, then you have been doing it long enough that you look at the dogs as MONEY!

Originally Posted by tencats

Dog's eat their own, and other animals feces, then think its okay to lick your face. I'd have to say both cats and dogs have their flaws.

You can train a dog to not lick, Zeus knows not to lick you anywhere! I love cats and dogs, but dogs are more my style....

[Delphinus]

Originally Posted by kari

Cats are inferior to dogs.
Cats dig in their litter box and then walk on your food preparation surfaces.

You prepare food on the floor? I always thought you were an odd one!!

I prefer things like stoves and barbeques myself. My cats never walked all over those .. I imagine if they did, they might not do it a second time.