Bit of a Vent

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by digital-audiophile

If two of the exact same skimmer are manufactured in Germany and one is shipped to a LFS in Canada and one is shipped to a LFS in the United States with the dollar at parity and assuming that both stores have the same overhead and expected profit margin there should be no real difference in the price.

Most of the time this isn't how it happens though. You usually can't call up a factory in Germany and say "I'd like 3 please". They're going to sell them by the pallet or not at all. This means you have to call up a wholesaler, almost always in the US, and get them from there.

Now there is another thing that comes into that with currency. USD and CAD are at par but keep in mind this has more to do with the relative weakness of USD compared to the strength of CAD. If that wholesale operation is buying from Germany they are now paying more and will pass that cost on. This is already starting to happen.

The option for local guys is to find ways to buy direct or find Canadian wholesale guys that do it. This isn't always easy or even possible though.

[Zylumn]

Originally Posted by digital-audiophile View Post
If two of the exact same skimmer are manufactured in Germany and one is shipped to a LFS in Canada and one is shipped to a LFS in the United States with the dollar at parity and assuming that both stores have the same overhead and expected profit margin there should be no real difference in the price.


I am sure that a trade agreement between the two countries and Government taxes would create a parity and produce a " real difference in the price". I lived in the US for 8 years Near Everything is cheaper except Medical Services and Prescriptions.
Kevin

[digital-audiophile]

I don’t disagree at all. I know that most LFS are small and are owned by private citizens, with the exception of a few and we are lucky that these big ones do not try to put the little guy out of business like a Wal-Mart would.

I don't think any Canadian has a problem with a little bit of a price differential on consumer goods but as I mentioned in another thread that when shopping for highchairs on the weekend I found them to be more than $50 more here in Calgary than they are listed in American stores. This does not make sense to me, especially considering that Calgary is in the middle of a baby boom with more than 20,000 babies being born every year I don't think a lot of US cities are experiencing these same kinds of numbers but they still pay less. Another thing is that the dollar has been at or near parity for the past few months but brand new current issue magazines still have a large differential in price on the cover. This makes no sense to me.

Although I will continue to support as much local business (remember I am talking all business not just fish) as I can because I understand the value of buying local, but in the end it comes down to the almighty dollar. I am not a rich man by any means and if I can keep a few extra dollars in my pocket by buying from the US online (especially living in an expensive inflated city like Calgary) you had better believe I am going to do it.

We live in an age of global consumerism. Even 10 years ago it was not always viable to buy from another country, but with the internet at the state it is today it encourages price shopping and more competition. I would not be able to keep my job for very long if I continued to purchase pipe from a local mill at a greater price just because they are "nice guys from Calgary" I am already working with mills in Europe and Asia because they provide a better value for the company dollar.

[Delphinus]

You know a price difference of $50 on an item worth a couple hundred wouldn't even bother me. What bothers me is where the price differential is so vast it's just ridiculous for lack of a better word.

Luckily, I find that at least in this hobby, we don't see too many cases of "let's rape the Canadian consumer". But there are easy examples in different industries:

The bike carrier I use is made by Thule. At one point, Thule was a Swedish company. I don't know if the brand still is or isn't. But the exact model I use has a MSRP of $600 in Canada. SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS. The same model in the U.S. has a MSRP of $300. How does the exchange rate of even 6 months ago to a year ago or whenever it was really bad, justify a DOUBLING of the cost? I found an ebay retailer who was selling them for $260. With taxes shipping and brokerage and with a WEAKER Canadian dollar at the time, I landed that thing to my door for less than half the Canadian MSRP. I don't mind paying a premium to keep things local but there is a point where it makes no financial sense anymore to do so.

Another example? Cars. Look at the prices of cars in Canada and the U.S. .. Again, it's just ridiculous. I know a person who bought his Subaru in the U.S. 2 or 3 years ago, could sell this 2 or 3 year old car locally here for still more than what they paid for. Absurd.

But what's really outrageous now is some companies are putting policies in place to prevent U.S. retailers to selling to Canadians. A lot of people in the media telling their stories about how they tried to buy a car and the dealerships aren't allowed to sell to them.

Bombardier takes the prize here. A Canadian company who we've subsidized with our tax dollars has said to U.S. retailers "You may not sell your products to Canadians." They say it's to protect the Canadian retailers. Even the U.S. retailers find this frustrating. The article I read in the Herald quoted one as saying "for years Americans would go to Canada and buy Sea-Doos up there because the dollar was in their favour. Who was protecting MY interests then?" In my opinion this is flat-out a policy of discrimination against Canadians which when you think about how we've paid our TAX dollars to subsidize this company is really offensive.

[Skimmin]

My apologies for the previous post. Just something that had been on my mind for a while now ... So the local business owner vented, and then the local customer vented. Neal say what you want but the way you handled yourself was not right, and those fish were beat. I'll be dealing with repuatable businesses from now on. No more out of a basement business. I have no problem if I pay top dollar for something that is really nice or out of the ordinary. But all too often I find that the justification for pricing on certain items is poor(not typically fish and corals) I don't care about an extra $50 or $100. I've spent over $10000.00 on this hobby and the majority has been local. So all I was trying to say is go ahead and charge top dollar but also offer top notch service and product quality.

[whosinpower]

As consumers, we expect to see prices dropping because of our strong dollar compared to US when buying american goods. And, because of our strong dollar, we are looking far more aggresively at online shopping vs local.

Having said that, I bought all my saltwater equipment/supplies and livestock from a small local dealer. I did this because I feel quite strongly we should support local business whenever possible being a small business owner myself. And, secondly, the support I get from that local owner goes a long way to giving me a satisfactory experience with the hobby. I never would of attempted a saltwater tank had it not been for the advice, recommendations from this person.

I only mention this because I am a rank beginner and perhaps hobbyists who have been in it for a long while may be braver to take a risk and buy online or elsewhere. It is an expensive hobby. And I would rather go see someone face to face, discuss with that person my wants and needs, rather than spending my money with an unknown entity. I'd rather have someone tell me - nope - your not ready for this coral yet, or your water isn't quite up to keeping this animal rather than jumping in - getting something that perhaps I should of waited on and ended up killing the animal out of ignorance. Will I end up paying more for that coral or animal than elsewhere? Perhaps....but at the end of the day, I think I am still farther ahead financially if I do things right the first time.

[reptile guy]

Hey I'm one of the worst at times for paying top dollar for a high quality animal lol. Sometimes I see something that is really nice and will pay more to get it but also knowing if I do end up parting with it that I'm not likely to get anymore for it when I take it into a pet store than is the going rate so you sometimes just have to take the loss if you do part with it(wow long sentence lol). I have run into a couple pet stores that can be a bit shady at times but howdy didn't seem like he was being that way at all and he seemed willing to try and work it out to your satisfaction but you guys just didn't see eye to eye(happens sometimes).



QUOTE Skimmin;278897]My apologies for the previous post. Just something that had been on my mind for a while now ... So the local business owner vented, and then the local customer vented. I have no problem if I pay top dollar for something that is really nice or out of the ordinary. But all too often I find that the justification for pricing on certain items is poor(not typically fish and corals) I don't care about an extra $50 or $100. I've spent over $10000.00 on this hobby and the majority has been local. So all I was trying to say is go ahead and charge top dollar but also offer top notch service and product quality.[/quote]

[Ken]

Hi Neal, I sincerely support and understand your frustration and venting because I have a similiar business and maintenance company that we operated. I live in a small town on Vancouver island, population less than 50,000 people, and the few aquarium reef hobbyists supports mostly online or out of town. My percentage of retail is less while my maintenance clients is my living. As our town is fairly small, there is not a huge reef hobbyist here compare to larger city like the mainland. Maintenances takes me up and down the island just to make a living. I have been in this hobby for 37 years and very passionate about, I am still learning and I am not about to quit. We have spent many hours with maintenance clients just staring at their prize aquarium because they are themselves passionate about the hobby. I just took a drive around town lately and noticed many retail stores have closed down. I feel supporting your local store for whatever at a reasonable price is fair, considering where you live. We are small but we provide good service and support our local stores and local charities. Where in our town can you come by at 10:00 pm and get a 10k MH bulb in an emergency? Tonight, we just picked up 3 boxes of Bali shipment, each and every one of these livestock will be accilimated carefully, housed in a stressfree environment, fed the best quality food and trained to aquarium life and then after 6 weeks or more, will be sent to one of my maintenance client's aquarium. They will not be advertise as "new shipment in" tomorrow. We are passionate and we do care about the livestock that are placed in our hands for their well being. Neal best of luck to you sincerely. Regards Ken

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Zylumn

I am sure that a trade agreement between the two countries and Government taxes would create a parity and produce a " real difference in the price". I lived in the US for 8 years Near Everything is cheaper except Medical Services and Prescriptions.
Kevin

Yeah this is very true! I lived in the US for a long time too (my parents are american) and everything from food to aquarium supplies to toilet paper is cheaper. Medical services are more expensive as you said but not much more really than paying MSP here in vancouver. My US insurance was really about the same and covered much the same stuff. But thats besides the point...

I know I have brought this up before but in Florida I could get a lot of the equipment I try to get here for 2/3 or half the price! As for livestock, well its not fair to compare because of geography but down in Florida I would say everything is easily half! Imagine how your tank would look if for all the money you have put into your corals, you had double the amount!

Needless to say, it was really hard to buy stuff from LFS here when I first came back. Im used to the higher prices now again but it hurts to think of how cheap it was...

Actually the funny thing about all this, is that I work here from my home in Vancouver for a Los Angeles Film Studio and get paid in US dollars...So I was going to be loosing money over this. A year ago I was making a ton because our dollar was so much weaker. Luckily they have adjusted my wage with the times but that could have been terrible!

Edit: I will always buy online from the US first though if the prices are cheaper. Shipping is often free or very cheap if you spend enough anyways. I have no idea what all the headaches people are bringing up about shipping dry goods from the US but I have never had any. These days its so simple and easy to do. You get a tracking number and can check up on your package every step of the way. You can also request a delivery time from UPS. They will always tell you that they cannot do that but if you push hard enough, they will do it. I actually had a package that was suppose to come before 10 once but never showed up until 1. I had called UPS and told them I was suppose to be at work and loosing money because of them (which is not entirely true because I work from a laptop anywhere I want really). They ended up waiving the duty fee of $30 after I told them I would have to talk to the Better Business Bureau. They respond very well to that "threat" Thats the worst problem I have ever had and it worked out well.

[G1GY]

GreenSpottedPuffer,

You can save more money getting your stuff shipped by USPS.(Quite a bit more.)

I use UPS for shipments within Canada, but avoid them for anything international.