Complex Setups: What gives?

[Delphinus]

That's exactly it - you do what works for you to keep things simple from your perspective.

In my case, I tried dosing and I tried calcium reactors. For me, nothing beats the "set and forget" part of the calcium reactor. If I go away on a trip, my tank sitter doesn't have to do any kind of dosing, just check to make sure things are running. For me, that's simpler. But if another way seems simpler to you, then that's not wrong either.

Basically Chin nailed it:

I currently have a lot of "gadgets" in and out of my sump and while they may seem overwhelming, each and every item has a specific function to simplify the complexity of the hobby. Understanding the functionality of each gadget will reduce the perception of complexity.
As complex as some systems may be, there is not one guaranteed recipe of success when putting together a tank which results in continuous modifications and improvements to our existing "already-complexed" systems.

I totally agree. (Although it seems to me that was the point I was originally trying to make, so I guess I'm just agreeing with myself now. Haha oh well.) Point is, it only seems overwhelming if you don't understand what it's for. And you should not do anything if you don't understand why you're doing it. So while someone says "you should use halides" (or whatever), if you don't understand why you need halides, then you don't need them. As your experience grows and your interests shift, you may realize that you do one day need them. But until then .. it's whatever makes your tank work, that works.

[draco]

I would say start off small,Everyone I know has had a crash,the bigger the more expensive it is to recover,And if you start off simple you get a better understanding of how everything works.When you want to upgrade the best thing is to ask on canreef,there will always be someone out there that is upgrading one step more than you,you can get your upgrade for half the price of new.keep reading other peoples problems it helps so you dont make the same mistake.The people here know more than your local petstore,they have had these problems,the guy at the petstore needed a job!We started with a 55 gal with pc and now we upgraded to a 90 gal with halides and overflows and sump.I would have been lost with out having had the 55gal first,and with out the people here anwsering all my questions.Good Luck

[Myanth]

I'll chime in here but you have to remember that I build my system to be as self sufficient as possible and I don't dabble in expensive (okay really expensive) or really fragile livestock. I don't overload on Bio producers and I have a huge cleaning crew (approx 100 hermits and 80 snails, not including the ones breeding in the rock)

I have a lot of liverock. 140lb in a 90 gal tank with 15-20 gal sump. I think that is the most important part. I have two 250W MH lights with parabolic reflectors. I change 10-15 % water once a month. I use filtered well water which is already high in calcium. I have a sump and a SEIO pump in the tank. Water flow is as essential as liverock. I would not run without a skimmer and I got a bubble king from Snappy that is trouble free.

I add nothing as a general rule. The minor water changes keep everything pretty much up. I add calcium if my coral growth rate seems slow (I do measure first) and magnesium if my KH is too high, which my well water seems to contribute to.

I have recently been running a 50 micron filter in the sump for esthetics, keeping the water clear.

I have macro algea growth in the tank which seems to keep phospates down.

Basically I like to have a functioning ecosystem. And it works for me.

I feed the eleven fish I have only twice a week and only about a quarter sized frozen piece of mysis. And some Nori on no real schedule.

It works for me, but only after a lot of learning and a lot of research.

It really does take a lot of work to be this lazy.

[Chaotic Cricket]

Originally Posted by Myanth

I'll chime in here but you have to remember that I build my system to be as self sufficient as possible and I don't dabble in expensive (okay really expensive) or really fragile livestock. I don't overload on Bio producers and I have a huge cleaning crew (approx 100 hermits and 80 snails, not including the ones breeding in the rock)

I have a lot of liverock. 140lb in a 90 gal tank with 15-20 gal sump. I think that is the most important part. I have two 250W MH lights with parabolic reflectors. I change 10-15 % water once a month. I use filtered well water which is already high in calcium. I have a sump and a SEIO pump in the tank. Water flow is as essential as liverock. I would not run without a skimmer and I got a bubble king from Snappy that is trouble free.

I add nothing as a general rule. The minor water changes keep everything pretty much up. I add calcium if my coral growth rate seems slow (I do measure first) and magnesium if my KH is too high, which my well water seems to contribute to.

I have recently been running a 50 micron filter in the sump for esthetics, keeping the water clear.

I have macro algea growth in the tank which seems to keep phospates down.

Basically I like to have a functioning ecosystem. And it works for me.

I feed the eleven fish I have only twice a week and only about a quarter sized frozen piece of mysis. And some Nori on no real schedule.

It works for me, but only after a lot of learning and a lot of research.

It really does take a lot of work to be this lazy.

So would you still put two clowns in ten gallons

[KrazyKuch]

Personnaly I have Skimmer, Kalk Reactor, Calcium Reactor, Coil Denitrator, Auto Top Off....All of which I have built my self or was built for me Which I find saves you tons of money if you DIY everything....My skimmer I built cost me $80 and it is equivelant to something that would cost around $500....

and Like Bev Said none of it is neccissary, I have them because I am lazy and don't want to dose everyother day and do weekly water changes so this equipment lets me go longer between water changes!!

[BMW Rider]

For me, the complexity is for simplicity. I love my tanks, but I don't want to be tied down by them, having to be continously checking this, adding that, feeding, testing, etc. I do usually fiddle and tweak daily, plus I feed daily some frozen food and nori. Additional twice daily feedings are done with a feeder. That way the fish are used to dry food and I can set the feeder for a bit more and all is good for an extended absence. Same goes for the automation, the tank runs pretty stable without any additives needed except on rare occasions, so it will be fine if I'm not there for a week or more. There's enough top off water to get through at least a week. I can add a larger auxilliary resevoir for longer trips. I also have power backups for the critical return pumps. I still have someone come by and make sure all is running a few times if I'm away fro more than a couple of days, but I know that barring disaster, the tanks will survive just fine without me while I'm away. They might be a bit gross with algae when I return, but that is a minor thing to cleanup again.

I don't buy the fancy name brand equipment, some of it is just way to pricey for me. I like to DIY when I can, but some things I've found are jsut too much work to DIY and make it operate reliably. For those I have bought premade, typically a decent product, but not the real high end stuff. Other things, like my CA reactor have been marvelous DIY successes for much less than the cost of buying.

I also agree with the concept that by making the routine chores less demanding there's more time to do other chores. Of course it can also lead to complacency which is something I've found myself falling to once in a while when other hobbies dominate my attention. Generally though, it just makes the reefing more enjoyable and less frustrating for me.

[Myanth]

Originally Posted by Chaotic Cricket

So would you still put two clowns in ten gallons

Yeah.

Under the right circumstances. I did most of my research and experimentation with that ten gallon. It was a reef tank / quarantine tank for two years before I got it from a friend. I purchased 12 lbs of cured liverock and two clownfish when the ammonia levels were non-existant. Had a penguin 270 HOB filter with no media and a powersweep something, second from the smallest. Corallife 96 W light came when I couldn't get any growth from candy canes. Had seventeen species of coral, scooter blenny, two clowns and two cleaner shrimp, plus twenty or so hermits and assorted snails.

The clowns are getting on three years old and are breeding happily under their heteractis magnifica anemone. (picture in the invert thread from a couple of days ago)

Now would I ever subject a heteractis magnifica anemone to captivity in any size tank ever again. That's a different question. The time will come when I can not supply what this animal needs and I will be looking for a new place for it.

But two clowns in a ten gallon. Sure.

I would post pictures if someone let me know how to put them in the message. I can only seem to get them on as attachments. Duh...

[Doug]

And whats the matter with hang on skimmers.

[Johnny Reefer]

I agree with the statement that complexity, with regard to this hobby, is relative. The definition of such can be as broad as there is people in the hobby.

As some of you know, I recently upgraded both my Reef and FOWLR systems. One of the reasons being to simplify things. But there is a point where I draw the line. I currently am not running my PhosBan reactor. It’s sitting idle in a closet. I run RowaPhos in a canister (along with carbon). I am not convinced...yet...that the reactor is any better than the canister and running the Rowa in the canister...for me...is simpler. While doing the upgrades I was considering a UV sterilizer. I decided to hold off on that....for now. I’m not sure that that is necessary and the downside to it is that it also kills off good stuff. And the day I get lighting that simulates Cumulonimbus cloud cover is the day I win the lottery.

But one thing that I really can’t get my head around is the benefits off a Ca reactor vs. manual dosing. I’ve never seen a Ca reactor, so I just don’t know much about them. (Ca reactor dummy here). I test Ca once a week. If it’s down, I go to the Reef Chemistry calculator to determine the amount required to bring it up to what I want. Then put a couple of cups of sump water in a jug. Measure the required amount of Ca and add it to the jug. Stir it up and pour it into the sump. Test the next day again. Done. I don’t find it to be much of a burden. Is there not a trade off of chores with having a Ca reactor? I get that it eliminates manual dosing, but what about maintaining the lower pH required within a Ca reactor? Also, does it need cleaning every so often? Then there’s the CO2. How much “hands on” does that require?

I guess, long question short.....what maintenance does a Ca reactor require?

Thanx much,

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Johnny Reefer

I get that it eliminates manual dosing, but what about maintaining the lower pH required within a Ca reactor? Also, does it need cleaning every so often? Then there’s the CO2. How much “hands on” does that require?

I guess, long question short.....what maintenance does a Ca reactor require?

Thanx much,

nope, no PH problem on a properly set up reactor. no cleaning just filling once and a while and you could rinse it when you fill it. as for co2, I had a 30lb bottle and I would have to fill it every 6 months. media I would have to fill every 6 months also as I had a large volume on mine. PH was constant at 8.0 so no problem there.

Steve