Making a case as to why NOT to bring home a Regal angel

[digital-audiophile]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

However my husband built the system and he buys what he wants to buy for all his hard work.

Marriages are supposed to be a partnership... if I told my wife that I was coming home with a pitbull because I work hard and deserve one she would divorce me... why?? ... because I would have not thought about the welfare of my daughter, my existing pets and the health and happiness of the dog, nor her concerns.





(BTW I do not intend to offend any pitbull owners.. I just use them as an example because they are painted as being a mean dog)

[my2rotties]

I have the following fish

- porcupine puffer
- picasso trigger
- cleaner wrasse
- copperband butterfly
- 2 clownfish
- naso tang
- sohal tang
- sailfin tang
- purple tang
- yellowhead sleeper goby
- banana wrasse
- coral beauty angel (still healthy & robust)
- 2 rabbitfish
- 2 chromis

I have had pitbulls and rottweilers for two decades, although you do not mean to offend, this is what causes BSL and the lack of right in ownership. It is the dog's owners and not the breed at all. I have had many dogs of these breeds over my lifetime and had no issues with them being mean or unstable. My only issues with them is they do not live long enough and die of cancer always.

MY hubby has gotten much better but he gets excited in the hobby. He still has not picked up his regal angel to take time to find out about what went wrong with our other angels and take time to research more. Sometimes he does not always listen to me, but he has been fantastic so far.

I just asked the question today because I hate answers like "they are hard to keep" with no real info on as to why they are hard to keep. The other answers usually is "they eat corals", well what corals do they eat? It was more for a learning experience rather then bringing the fish home on impulse. It has been there for two months, and I am in no rush, nor is my husband. I know if we don't take it, someone will but it before we leave the store with our credit...

I know they are hard to keep and eat corals... I( was just hoping someone that has these fish would have chimed in about what they destroyed and what issues they did have. I really did not expect the be told I **** other people off in the hobby. I take responsibility with my mistakes and try to learn from them. I also like to know how things happen, and why they happen. Don't you remember being a kid and asking your parents "WHY" you can't do something, and they say "Because i said so"...

I have not added any fish in a very long time, and yes I have a Sargassum trigger on hold at the LFS... He is not home and I do not know if I even will take him home. They are hard to come by, and I felt I would make sure I did not miss out on this fish, and take the time to ensure he is healthy and eating, and I am ready. The other wrasse I was asking about would not be delivered for another two weeks and I am researching and asking questions about him. I am making sure I can get a positive ID and learn if he can be happy with my other fish.

I have made mistakes and I am doign my best to make sure I don't make the same ones again. However I cannot promise that I will not make anymore, but I will ask ask prior to doing so I am enlightened going into it, or decide not to proceed.

I really do love my fish, they all have names and personalities. I can always account for each and everyone and know their behaviors and quirks. I research diets and do my best to give them the best of everything. I just went and spent over $40 for seafood medley and squid and mussels and such to puree in my blender with supplements for my puffer. He loves it but my other fish eat the scrapes that blow out his gills. I really do my best for these guys, and know I am responsible for them completely. If I have a problem it would be nice to know I can come here for help instead of being bashed for being dumb enough to ask in the first place...

[hipp77]

I am sorry that you have taken so much heat over asking a simple question.
There is always more than one way to get a point across. I feel that some people did not handled in a very nice way.
I hope that Diana you will not take those comments to heart. We have all made mistakes in this hobby and I feel that you are very sincere about caring for the fish and doing what is best for them.

Calvin

[digital-audiophile]

I'm sure you are a very nice person, and I would much like to meet you some day... heck I'm sure we have been in the same fish stores at the same time without knowing it anyways Us fish people are an odd bunch.


With all due respect however, it almost seems like you ask the questions just to get the negative responses. I think you know what most users are going to say on here anyways... angels eat corals, they are hard to keep, that you are over stocked, that your tank is too new and on and on.

If you think people are being harsh here.. give RC a shot


Anyhow... as far as the angel goes.. sure you can try it if your other half insists.. just don't look for sympathy from the canreefers when it dies.

[my2rotties]

Hi Calvin, when it comes to pets both furry and scaly, I take whatever heat I need to take when I try to speak on behalf of them all. I do not believe there is such a thing as a stupid question to be honest. If someone is asking it, it is important to them to know the answer... even if it is nobrainer.

It's an ongoing joke between myself and a couple of canreefers about me getting beat up for asking questions... I just keep coming back for moreIf I need to know, I ask. Yes there are some pretty negative responses, but I filter those out and use the information I need to better myself in this hobby in the end.

If my questions benefit my fish I have and the ones in the future it was well worth the trouble and heat. I just worry about other people that are afraid to ask questions because of the flaming and negativity... They could be having problems and are afraid to seek the help that they really need.

Originally Posted by hipp77

I am sorry that you have taken so much heat over asking a simple question.
There is always more than one way to get a point across. I feel that some people did not handled in a very nice way.
I hope that Diana you will not take those comments to heart. We have all made mistakes in this hobby and I feel that you are very sincere about caring for the fish and doing what is best for them.

Calvin

[my2rotties]

I do know I will get the typical answers, but always hope to get something better then that. I did get many replies with help and insight in my PMs so it was worth asking in the first place. I really don't ask to get a negative response, I do ask my friends that are members of canreef and if they don't know, I stand before the firing squad.

I do not want the angel or any other angel for that matter. They are beautiful but if I have had no luck in keeping them now, I don't want to take another chance. My hubby really has had second thoughts as well, but I just wanted to make sure the info was laid out to him in a way he could learn more about the species in general. Yes, at the beginning he brought home some stuff that made me hit the roof, but he didn't know better. I know if he was treated the way I have been treated, he would never come here again and reply on what the LFS says to him I did that once with my puffer and have worked super hard to make him work in my system.

When I ask questions I hope for answers from people whom have experienced what I am asking first hand. There are many mistakes we do make in life (not this hobby) that we were advised against doing, and we did it anyways... Sometimes first hand experience is the best, but I don't take any life lightly. IT is hard to come on here and admit to mistakes or talking about them... however it is part of taking responsibility and owning what we have done.

I believe I missed you at Dave's place when he shut his tank down (you nabbed my corals). If you see a giant lifted black F350 outside the LFS, my hubby and I are in there...

Originally Posted by digital-audiophile

I'm sure you are a very nice person, and I would much like to meet you some day... heck I'm sure we have been in the same fish stores at the same time without knowing it anyways Us fish people are an odd bunch.


With all due respect however, it almost seems like you ask the questions just to get the negative responses. I think you know what most users are going to say on here anyways... angels eat corals, they are hard to keep, that you are over stocked, that your tank is too new and on and on.

If you think people are being harsh here.. give RC a shot


Anyhow... as far as the angel goes.. sure you can try it if your other half insists.. just don't look for sympathy from the canreefers when it dies.

[Red Coral Aquariums]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

When I ask questions I hope for answers from people whom have experienced what I am asking first hand. There are many mistakes we do make in life (not this hobby) that we were advised against doing, and we did it anyways... Sometimes first hand experience is the best, but I don't take any life lightly. IT is hard to come on here and admit to mistakes or talking about them... however it is part of taking responsibility and owning what we have done.

Well said.

Don't stop asking questions and don't stop expecting answers you don't want to hear.
How many new people have been influenced by your questions and by the answers given? If one aquatic life has been influenced positively. You deserve Congratulations.
Kevin

[levi1803]

Originally Posted by digital-audiophile

Marriages are supposed to be a partnership... if I told my wife that I was coming home with a pitbull because I work hard and deserve one she would divorce me... why?? ... because I would have not thought about the welfare of my daughter, my existing pets and the health and happiness of the dog, nor her concerns.





(BTW I do not intend to offend any pitbull owners.. I just use them as an example because they are painted as being a mean dog)

funny how they are painted as mean dogs, they are not, they are strong dogs that need a proper owner that's all, I work for the humane society and have seen very few pit bulls that are mean, and trust me, I have seen lots of supposedly "nice" dogs that are mean because they have a**holes for owners. Funny stat is that the most bites from a dog in Canada are from Golden Retrievers.

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

Most large angels are misdiagnosed IMO. The bacterial disease is secondary to the actual culprit, which is flukes. These flukes are very common on larger angelfish and it appears that the regals are more prone to them then the others.

These flukes are tranparent and difficult to see. Generally they attack the gills then start to bombard the entire fish. You can spot them in the eyes as being a little piece of white opaque flesh. The flukes causes the fish to stop eating and flash and scrape themselves on anything sharp to get rid of this pest.

The injury to the flashing is what causes inflammation and secondary bacterial infection. Treating the fish with antibacteria does not destroy the flukes and sooner or later the fish dies from not eating and wastes away. Truly a sad sight to see such a maginificent creature die like that.

My best advise is to quarintine all you fish and treat all angelfish with Praziquantal or PraziPro. Immerse your angel in freshwater bath with a high concentration of PraziPro. I do not condone or recommend a specific dosage but make sure that your PH is equivelant to the tank water's PH and that you are running an air stone. I usually dip the fish for about 20-30 minutes and repeat this process once a day until the flukes are gone.

You will see the flukes begin to lose hold on the fish after a few minutes. Shorter if you are using a higher dosage of PraziPro. They will appear as oval shaped and transparent. Usually, there are about a couple of dozens that will immediately begin to die off. If you find that a couple of fluke are not fully detaching themselves off of the fish; I use a small plastic pippette that is used from water testing and gently scrape the flukes off of the fish. At this time, the fish is usually very stressed and will be easily scared, so be gentle and patient. I believe that a fish can feel your energy just as a dog can feel it as well.

At this time I also use methelyne blue to help with the secondary infection. Methelyne blue is an antiseptic and will reduce the oxygen levels in the bath; this is why I suggest using an air stone in the bath; to combat the loss of oxygen from MB. I would recommend using a variable air pump so that you can control the amount of air bubbles. The more air bubbles the more turbulent the bath water will be and this in turn causes the fish to become more stressed. Find a happy medium and WATCh your fish carefully. If it begins to lay down on it's side; stop the bath. Try it again the next day. The main thing is to not stress the fish and DO NOT put it back into it's original tank as there could be other flukes in the water column waiting to attach themselves to the fish when you place it back.

Once the flukes are cleared the fish you will immediately see an improvement and hopefully it will take to eating right away. Coax it with some clams in a half shell as they are very finicky eaters; but once eating they can be fed anything and everything.

I have imported many angelfish and have lost many as well unfortunately. I too have misdiagnosed and mistreated and fish only to have it die on me eventually. Regals are beautiful animals and they are very difficult to keep. If your set up is only a few months old; I would not recommend you putting it in your system and if you do, QUARINTINE even if it's been at your LFS for some time.


I hope this helps you on your search to the answer of why Regals are so hard to keep.

Ian.

[naesco]

Originally Posted by Red Coral Aquariums

Well said.

Don't stop asking questions and don't stop expecting answers you don't want to hear.
How many new people have been influenced by your questions and by the answers given? If one aquatic life has been influenced positively. You deserve Congratulations.
Kevin

And well put Kevin.

This thread (and the PMs she received) gave an opportunity for 'old salts' to express their frustration in trying to add their experience (they learned the hard way) for the benefit of new reefers.
IMO it also gave an opportunity for new reefers to understand that the 'cautions' we post about unsuitable species and their requirements are not meant to convey a know-it-all attitude but to try to stop unnecessary fish death.
Wayne