fish dying (long Post)

[pirate]

Well Its gonna look like I'm gonna lose another fish some time soon. He was fine during the day (bengaii cardnel) sleeping and swiming as he usually does, hiding in the corner away from the light. Well its time to head to bed now and he is lying in the same corner on the sand bed breathing hard . At the beginning of the week I lost my male clown fish , and some time befor that I lost a yellow tail damsel . My clown did the same thing before he passed away. The yellow tail not to sure when he went missing. Just quite seeing him.
I tried feeding him and he has no appitite, all the other came out though. I tried feeding the clown as well but no dice. So its starting to look like I've lost 3 in about a weeks time.
None of the other fish look stressed out, all are eating well. I did a 5 gallon water change today. Checked all the parameters nothing out of order except now I have some ammonia showing

What I can test



ph 7.5
ammonia is 0.6 or less
No2 0
No3 0
Sg 1.022-1.023
Temp 80F

I feed once a day,
Dry
pellets (1) new life spectrum
(2) Omega one shrimp
flakes (1) Omega one
And some veggie rounds. I tried some freeze dried shrimp but no one liked them

Frozen
San francisco -Angel and butterfly
-Marine Quisine
H2O life Carnivoir and omnivoirs
And some kind of brine/mysis shrimp flat pack.
As well as a sheet of green and a sheet of red nori.

I don't dose much of anything some phytomax and lugol about 1 a month if I rember.

The last fish I added is doing good added him about a month ago (red scouter) and befor that nothing for 3-4 months for fish, some coral.

I'm still using tap water ( need to finish installing my rodi), and an battling a algae problem. So I am running 2 tlf 150 with a bit of rowa phos in them. These were the last thing to change in my tank, just started to use them so I've turned them off, hoping things will change for the fish. Not caring about the algae.

More about the system (been up and running for about 6-7 months)
150g with a 25g (water volume)or so sump, I have a skimmer running. But I don't have enough water turn over, so I have 4 korolia 3. For tank mates I have
1 clown
1 red scoter blennie
1 yellow tail damsel
3 green chromis
1 yellow hawain tang (3-4 ")
1 domino damsel (2-3")
1 Sailfin tang (3-4")
1 Hippo tang (3-4")
1 watchmen gobi/tiger pistol shrimp pair
1 long spine unchin
1 peperment shrimp
and cuc.

So whats going on? Is there something in the water now that they have removed floride from our water in Calgary? Something in the water in the NE?

I don't want to lose any more fish. Most of them I've gotten when they are big, but I've had the clown and the bengaii for over a year now, got them when they were very small.

Well that is my tale of woe. Any insite would be very helpful.
Cheers

[MitchM]

PH is too low.
Ammonia should be zero ( how long are dying animals staying in your tank?) Look for that yellow tail damsel. That ammonia number says it's in there somewhere decaying. Get him out of there asap.
SG is low (should be closer to 1.026)
Change out more than 5g at at time. You should be changing 10 - 20% each month. You have a high bio load and you're feeding quite a lot.
Make sure you have a lot of surface water movement. How slow is your turnover?
What are your calcium, magnesium and alk numbers like?
Which salt are you using?
What is your regular maintenance schedule?
Do you have any sand and are you cleaning it regularly?
Are you running any carbon?

(not that it matters, but Calgary still has fluoride, it will take probably a year before they stop adding it)

[hillegom]

Do you use a quarantine tank when adding new fish/corals?
If not do you at least use a dip for new arrivals? If yes, what are you using?
Its quite possible some pathogen came in with your last fish.
And now with some of your water parameters not quite in line, your fish haveing been stressed, they are getting sick

[pinhead]

If they are fine during the day but are dead in the morning it is not your water parameters.

I would think that the oxygen levels are too low at night as the Corals and Macroalgae switch from photosynthesis to respiration. During the day they are using Carbon dioxide and producing oyxgen and at night the reverse occurs. The carbon dioxide produced at night is the reason pH also fluctuates between day or night.

Without an easy way to measure oxygen levels, the simple solution is to run an airstone at night or point some extra powerheads at the surface of the water for better gas exchange and into the rocks to prevent areas of low oxygen.

Try these simple solutions before you worry about your water.

[pirate]

Filled in the blanks

Originally Posted by MitchM

PH is too low. - How do I bring up the PH? (It was tested at 330 am light out at 9PM)
Ammonia should be zero ( how long are dying animals staying in your tank?) Look for that yellow tail damsel. That ammonia number says it's in there somewhere decaying. Get him out of there asap. - I've been looking for him but there is just no sign of him. I've moved most of my rock work and no dice. I'll go back in and se if I can find him
SG is low (should be closer to 1.026)
Change out more than 5g at at time. You should be changing 10 - 20% each month. _ I do 5g a week, so 20g a month
You have a high bio load and you're feeding quite a lot. - I dont feed all of that, I mix it up daily.
Make sure you have a lot of surface water movement. How slow is your turnover? - not too sure on the turn over maybe 1-2x. I am hoping to have the last of my peices to fix that this set of days off. I have lots of surface movement, but I'll try and point one of the k3 from the bottom to the top.
What are your calcium, magnesium and alk numbers like? - I dont have a test kit for these yet.
Which salt are you using? - IO
What is your regular maintenance schedule? - weekley 5g water change, befor and after each shift. Cleaning during that time.
Do you have any sand and are you cleaning it regularly? - Approx 1" unless the fish/pistol move it, but then I level it out.
Are you running any carbon? - I did but the tangs got more stressed out from it. They were always hiding, I set it up again to to see if it helps.

(not that it matters, but Calgary still has fluoride, it will take probably a year before they stop adding it)

I use tectra-d for a coral dip, I don't have any way of quarentine corals so I did them and in they go. I do a fresh water for the fish. I use to quartine but I was loosing more of them then I liked too. Sinse adding them after a fresh water dip they seem to do much better. Havent lost a fish till this happened...

Everthing in the tank looks good during the day all the coral is out and in full bloom . The fish are all out and swimming looking happy, and they all eat like pigs when I feed them. I think if the fish were all stressed out the would all be showing sign of it. There is ICK in the tank thanks to one of the tangs but no one has it at the monent.

I'll try and reposition a power head from the bottom of the tank to point more at the top, I don't think there is much areas of low flow in the tank as I got one of the K3 pointing at the back of all the rock work.

Thanks

[gobytron]

can you describeyour freshwater dip process for new fish?

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

I will have to agree on this one.
Your ph is way low,so you are creating very high co2 in the evening depleting the oxygen from the tank,killing your fish.
Place an air stone for the evening or have an airline running from the intake of one or more of your power head simply to add lots of oxygen back into your tank.
Do you run a calcium carbonate reactor check for a leek into your tank of co2.
If it's not the case It would simply not enough aeration or agitation of your water surface.

Originally Posted by pinhead

If they are fine during the day but are dead in the morning it is not your water parameters.

I would think that the oxygen levels are too low at night as the Corals and Macroalgae switch from photosynthesis to respiration. During the day they are using Carbon dioxide and producing oyxgen and at night the reverse occurs. The carbon dioxide produced at night is the reason pH also fluctuates between day or night.

Without an easy way to measure oxygen levels, the simple solution is to run an airstone at night or point some extra powerheads at the surface of the water for better gas exchange and into the rocks to prevent areas of low oxygen.

Try these simple solutions before you worry about your water.

[pirate]

Ok I found a large dead snail in my tank still no yellow tail. I have no co2 tank at all. Its a very simple system. PH right now is 8-8.5. is it still to low? How do I raise it?
For my fresh water dip I get the temp the same as my tank and put the new fish into the water ( water stands for a day or more, taken from my ato tank) And he stays for approx 5 mins.
I've aimed a power head from the bottom of the tank to the surface.

Thanks for all the help so far guys.

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

how did you raise your ph so fast and what did you do.just to have a better understanding that the ph was the problem.
try testing your ph in the morning before the lights come on and then a couple hours before lights out.

[MitchM]

So a few things going on here - I think all advice given so far is correct.
Measuring at 3:30 A.M. is probably when your PH reading is at it's lowest. For comparison purposes, try to take readings at the same time each day.
If you're only using IO without any other supplements, you don't have much buffering capacity to keep water parameters relatively stable when things decay or deaths go undetected.
Combine that with low gas exchange and that's the right combination for the deaths you're seeing, plus possibly some swings in PH, depending on the accuracy of the PH test method you're using.
Are you treating your tap water before you mix and add your new salt water?

I would suggest so far:
-Increase surface water movement
-Invest in some additional kits mag, cal, alk and test for those parameters
-Test at the same time of day each time you test
-Remove dead animals and detritus buildup as soon as possible

You might want to do a large water change (20% or so) to help get that ammonia number down to zero.