Blue Hippo - Ich - Treating with copper

scherzo · #1 11-08-2010, 05:55 AM

I have a Hippo Tang in a 15 gallon (It is a juvenile) and am treating it with copper. (It had ich).

Since I setup the tank a week ago ammonia is now going up. (**is a hospital tank.. NOT a DT!**)

How should I handle the water changes and re-dose the copper?

I think I'm about .25ppm for ammonia.

Should I just measure the amount I'm taking out and then re-dose?

I do have a copper test kit but I know that it is sometimes difficult to calculate dosage of the copper using a test kit. Maybe test 1st to get a baseline?

Anyone with experience?

Thanks

Myka · #2 11-08-2010, 02:47 PM

What test kit are you using? What copper treatment are you using?

If you are using Cupramine or any other amine copper treatment and using a Nessler style test kit (Salifert, Elos, etc) you will get a false ammonia reading because those test kits can't differentiate between ammonia and the amine used in Cupramine. If you use a salicylate style test kit (API, SeaChem, etc) you will get an accurate ammonia reading provided you read the test when you are supposed to, of you let it sit too long it will read like the Nessler kit.

If you do indeed have ammonia present that will harm the fish, you can use Prime with Cupramine, but you have to be very careful to not overdose Prime because it will make the copper 10x more toxic by changing the Cu2+ ions to Cu+.

daniella3d · #3 11-08-2010, 03:57 PM

You might want to rethink this and do a hyposalinity instead and put some liverock in there. I am doing it with a hippo with ich and my liverock bacterias survived the hyposalinity and I have zero problem with ammonia.

I keep my salinity between 1.010 to 1.009 and he's been in there with a clownfish in a 20 gallons for 3 weeks and no more sign of ich. One more week to go and I slow raise the salinity back to 1.024 over the course of 7 days and voila. I did this because I did not want to have to deal with ammonia rising all the time and loads of water change. Plus with hyposalinity it is easy to do water change since it only require a little bit of salt to reach 1.009.

But if you would change the treatment and go to hyposalinity then you would have to change all the water because you cannot combine hypo with copper, it woudl be toxic. You would also have to adjust the fish to the new salinity over a few days. It is easier on the fish to lower the salinity than to raise it, so dropping it can be done in one day but raising it must be done slowly like 0.002 per day. A refractometer is necessary because this need accuracy that a hygrometer cannot provide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scherzo

I have a Hippo Tang in a 15 gallon (It is a juvenile) and am treating it with copper. (It had ich).

Since I setup the tank a week ago ammonia is now going up.

How should I handle the water changes and re-dose the copper?

I think I'm about .25ppm for ammonia.

Should I just measure the amount I'm taking out and then re-dose?

I do have a copper test kit but I know that it is sometimes difficult to calculate dosage of the copper using a test kit. Maybe test 1st to get a baseline?

Anyone with experience?

Thanks

paddyob · #4 11-08-2010, 04:11 PM

So you put the hippo... in a brand new 15 gallon tank????

Why would you put any fish... let alone a HIppo Tang into an uncycled tank????

cuz · #5 11-08-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paddyob

So you put the hippo... in a brand new 15 gallon tank????

Why would you put any fish... let alone a HIppo Tang into an uncycled tank????

When using copper/cupramine it kills any bacteria anyways. Cycling the tank would be for nothing.
That's why you see the ammonia spike and stay on top of your water changes!!!

Lance · #6 11-08-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuz

When using copper/cupramine it kills any bacteria anyways. Cycling the tank would be for nothing.
That's why you see the ammonia spike and stay on top of your water changes!!!

+1 Check ammonia daily and change water when necessary.

Myka · #7 11-08-2010, 05:27 PM

Use water from an established reef tank for water changes if you can as it will be gentler on the fish. Don't forget to replace the Cupramine you removed, but only in the number of gallons you removed.

I would have suggested hyposalinity too as I am not a fan of copper treatments at all, but the OP has already started copper treatment.

globaldesigns · #8 11-08-2010, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scherzo

I have a Hippo Tang in a 15 gallon (It is a juvenile) and am treating it with copper. (It had ich).

Since I setup the tank a week ago ammonia is now going up.

How should I handle the water changes and re-dose the copper?

I think I'm about .25ppm for ammonia.

Should I just measure the amount I'm taking out and then re-dose?

I do have a copper test kit but I know that it is sometimes difficult to calculate dosage of the copper using a test kit. Maybe test 1st to get a baseline?

Anyone with experience?

Thanks

Personally, I am not a big believer in treating with copper. If your environment is healthy, then the fish will be... Now saying that, is the 15G your new tank? I am hoping it is a hospital tank, if so then follow the others advice.

If this is your new/regular tank, then a big NO NO.... Too small of a tank and too new for any type of fish.

Good Luck!

cwatkins · #9 11-08-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by globaldesigns

Personally, I am not a big believer in treating with copper. If your environment is healthy, then the fish will be...

+1 I'm a firm believer of this as well as natural healing methods for fish.

I know my tank has Ich in it, and probably always has (to some degree...). But by keeping my fish healthy with a balanced diet and dosing Garlic and Selcon into the food daily, it ensures anything that does appear clears up within a day or so.

I guess the UV also helps too.

scherzo · #10 11-09-2010, 12:06 AM

Hi all, Thanks for the tips.

I guess I should have provided some information.

1) Bought the fish about 1.5 weeks ago from a LFS.

2) Acclimated him directly into my 90 Gallon DT.. Then it showed ich the next day (no worries.. drip acclimated over 2 hours with the temperature in check. (and YES I do know that I now have ich in my DT but it hasn't attacked my other fish ever... they must be happy)

3) Pulled him out and setup a hospital tank. Bare bottom with some PVC elbows and tees to make him feel comfortable.

I've been doing WCs with old tank water from my 90 but now I started treating with copper.

I know that feeding well, clean water, etc...etc.. is best. That is what is going on in my DT. This is just a new fish from a LFS that must have been quite stressed by the move.

Once I start doing WCs I guess I have to check the copper level.

I am not using an amine treatment. Just regular copper.
I am using an API copper test kit and ammonia kit.

He currently is eating well.

I've actually had saltwater fish for almost 2 years (after moving from fresh water for over 10 years) and this is my first Saltwater Disease!

Someone's question about going hypo with copper.. from my research (taken with a grain of salt.. ) that going hypo with copper will increase the potency of the copper on the fish so is not recommended. It does make sense to me.

Thanks everyone