Help, sick fish maybe?

[wookie]

I've got a 55 gallon brackish tank. 3 puffers (2 GSP's and one Figure 8) and 5 Monos.

Tuesday night (8 days after my last water change) I scrubbed some algae off the tank walls (postponed water change for another less busy day) and then fed the fish bloodworms and little krill bits and they didn't seem to excited to eat. I didn't notice or think anything of it until the last 36 hours when the problem seemed worse.

Wednesday morning I went to feed them again and they totally ignore the food. Normally the Monos go ballistic at feeding time, darting back and forth and all over the place. It's quite entertaining to watch. This time they just swam back and forth through the food. This food was bloodworms and krill (different source this time). The figure 8 seemed to eat fine, but the GSP's were also a little weird. More black than usual, they didn't seem to brighten up from their sleepy state like usual.

So I panicked a bit and changed 10 gallons/18% (making sure to get out all that food that wasn't eaten from last night or Wednesday morning) also thinking it had been 9 days now since my last water change. Before taking out the water I grabbed a sample to take with me to the pet store for testing.

The pet store tested the water when I went at lunch and said ammonia and nitrates (or nitrites??) were pretty much at zero, said I didn't need to worry about changing my water as much as I have been as the tank seems pretty good. Okay, that's great.... But what's the problem then? Suggested a pro-biotic additive that is good for ick, and some other stuff. A red bottle for fresh and salt water. Added the recommended dose Wednesday when I got home.

Wednesday night same as usual. The 2 GSP's seemed sleepy and were darker than usual, seemed to be doing some weird darting around every now and then. Figure 8 seemed fine. The Monos weren’t as groupie as usual and seemed off.

Fed them a small amount Wednesday night. Same result. Very little interest. Except from Figure 8. I think he's fine. GSP's might have eaten a bit but seemed pretty disinterested.

Thursday morning tried some brine shrimp. Same result, Monos ignored it totally, swam through as if it wasn't there. Figure 8 happily seemed to be eating here and there. The GSP's seemed a little interested, still a bit black on the bellies and darker overall. Still seemed to be in their sleepy state.

I did notice the mono's seemed to be hugging really close to the live rock (one small chunk) almost like they were cuddling it and hiding from the power head current. As well, the GSP's were still doing a random twitch every now and then, but this time I seemed to be able to interpret it as almost rubbing their sides against things. Like plants (fake), the bottom, the filter, the blue bubbly thing, almost as if they had an itch and the twitch was them trying to scratch themselves (the twitch I noticed before but didn’t' decipher). This could also be me imagining things as I'm looking too much into this.

Any suggestions or ideas?

Thanks so much for reading the long story!

EDIT: Just wanted to add, due to the fact the tank was quite clean before I did the water change I'm assuming I'm not overfeeding. As well we've had them for a while (added two monos about two weeks ago) and this is totally new behaviours.

[Llamarama]

I can only speak for the GSPs as I have 2 but I know mine turn black based on mood it seems as the water parameters are consistent but I also notice my puffers often shove themselves between the rocks as well as between the filter intake and the glass looks like fun to me and I've had them about a year and I'm positive they're not sick. How old are your puffers? Once they reach about 2 or 3 inches they don't need to be fed every day either

[wookie]

Originally Posted by Llamarama

I can only speak for the GSPs as I have 2 but I know mine turn black based on mood it seems as the water parameters are consistent but I also notice my puffers often shove themselves between the rocks as well as between the filter intake and the glass looks like fun to me and I've had them about a year and I'm positive they're not sick. How old are your puffers? Once they reach about 2 or 3 inches they don't need to be fed every day either

Yeah, ours always have changed based on mood, they're usually sluggish in the am, and a bit darker, or lighter, almost camouflaged into their surroundings. But this black suddenly is throughout the day vs. when just waking up, or having been napping.

Also they're greedy little pigs - and the change has been sudden. Although one of the GSPs suddenly looks okay right now... Regardless if it wasn't for the Monos being weird right now as well I'd just brush it off as puffers being puffers - but include the monos not eating and I'm a little nervous.

Thanks for the replies.

[wookie]

WTF...

So tonight, not much having changed... two monos die.

One starts swimming sideways, being weird, darting around, then BAM, upside down cold/dead. Like a massive heart attack. A quick spaz then instant death.

About 20 minutes later another one.

We originally had the three puffers. Then a month or two later the 3 monos for a few weeks then added two more about two weeks ago. I'm pretty sure those two additions are the ones that died today.

I'm not sure how to describe the current tank activity. Maybe they're doing better... maybe not, it's hard to judge right now.

The two GSPs seem almost completely normal (I think, again, tough to judge).

[Llamarama]

sorry to hear

[wookie]

Originally Posted by Llamarama

sorry to hear

Thanks,

I've now lost 3 more Monos and Two puffers. Well, just one puffer - the other one is grabbing air at the top and pretty much dead.

$%#$!!!

Fish store figured it was a parasite, suggested bringing salt up to 1.02 to kill off the parasite. Said it would shock the first a bit, but hopefully they'd survive and it would knock out the parasite. Yeah - that worked....

Got up this morning, the puffer that died was the fish in the best shape during all this. Clearly he didn't appreciate the salt, the other puffer that is pretty much dead, they weren't in great shape - but I'm surprised the Mono is okay still.

I think the fish store just wiped out two of my three puffers with their suggestion.

I'm kind of sad as I feel quite bad for them. But all the work/time/effort/money that's going into this stupid tank is almost as painful.

[Seafan]

Sorry to hear about your losses and trouble with the tank. Just curious, what was your salinity at before you increased it? Unless it was a really huge increase from what you originally had it should not have been the change in salinity. I had monos and gsp's for the longest time a while back and I took them from freshwater, (which the store I bought them at had them in) to reef in a matter of a couple of weeks with absolutely no ill effects. There is more of a chance of hurting the fish if it is a decrease in salinity too quickly. It really sounds like a water issue to me with lack of oxygen, I would definately buy your own test kits, as when a petstore tests your water, if it's one of the chain stores that is, They are pretty inaccurate. Remember a tank can look clean even with huge amounts of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and these fish seem especially sensitive to these. Have you been testing and changing water out after each loss, as this could potentially create a spike in parameters as well.

[Seafan]

Just one more note that might help you out a bit. You might try this sight;
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/monofaqs.htm

This is a couple of quote's from this sight;
"Do review circulation, oxygenation, and water temperature. Monos are classic "surf zone" fish and they are hyper-sensitive to stagnant, oxygen-poor water. Given enough oxygen, they're tough as old boots, but if the water lacks sufficient circulation, they turn grey, gasp, and sicken very quickly"

"Monodactylus can be converted to marine conditions quickly. I'd use the drip method across an hour, as if they were swimming through an estuary, but yes, you could in theory dump them straight in."

Monos also require a ph of 7.5 to 8.5

Hopefully you are using reef salt or equivalent, and not aquarium salt as there is a difference.

I would definately rule out ich if your salinity has been high enough brackish as ich does not fair well in brackish water.

I wish you luck and hope you can get your tank turned around soon

[wookie]

Thanks for the posts. I used salt in cups, placed it in the tank and let the salt slowly disolve. I've been told to do this by a number of people as it's slow.

I had the water tested at Pisces in Calgary.

I'm not sure about oxygen but there's a air pump attached to a blue ball that does tons of little bubbles, I've got a Eheim pro filtering the water and getting good flow and we bought a powerhead a month or so ago to have good flow. I thought that was all enough to keep the oxygen levels up.

Thanks again for the reply.

One GSP left, he actually ate some snails today and bloodworms, but he looks grey and unhappy and the one mono, laboured breathing and not eating still.

Gotta go, will give more feedback on water changes, my ride is here.

[wookie]

I did change the water quite a bit over the last week as things were getting out of control. I don't have a quarantine tank or had any options. Fish were sick or getting sick and the best guess was the water changes.