cleaner wrasse

blueyota · #1 04-11-2009, 07:47 PM

are these fish as hard to keep as people say....im thinking of getting one since my peppermint or coral banded shrimp keep killing my cleaner shrimp i put in so thinking of another route of fish cleaning...thanks

justinl · #2 04-11-2009, 08:02 PM

forget it. this fish is an extremely bad choice because all they eat is fish parasites; and even the rare few who accept prepared foods often die long before they should. The number of successful cases can be counted on your hands... the number of unsuccessful cases that end up with dead cleaner wrasses every year is something I don't even want to know. these are better left in the ocean to clean wild stock of parasites... if you've ever seen a line of fish waiting for a single cleaner wrasse's services in a wild reef, you would know why.

edit: another solution you might look into is neon gobies.

blueyota · #3 04-11-2009, 08:25 PM

ok thanks i have 2 hector gobys in my tank now so maybe i will try another cleaner shrimp just a bigger one ...hope that works

MCC · #4 04-11-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueyota

are these fish as hard to keep as people say....im thinking of getting one since my peppermint or coral banded shrimp keep killing my cleaner shrimp i put in so thinking of another route of fish cleaning...thanks

Take out your coral banded shrimp... depending on your size of tank... these things get very nasty when they grow bigger.... kill off shrimps , crabs, and even fish if they can!

TJSlayer · #5 04-11-2009, 08:51 PM

Not sure I agree with you 100% there...

I got one from a fellow reefer who shut his tank down, and he had it for almost 2 years. I have had it now for a good 6 months as well. Very active, fat and healthy.....

May just be lucky but the same could be said for copperbands, mandarines, etc. I myself lost my copperband and he was eating mysis etc, right from my hand, only had him for 2 months or so. Good one day, gone the next...

Just my 2 cents...

saltyrigger · #6 04-11-2009, 09:44 PM

Ive had mine for five and a half years. eats everything I put in tank.

fishoholic · #7 04-11-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinl

forget it. this fish is an extremely bad choice because all they eat is fish parasites; and even the rare few who accept prepared foods often die long before they should. The number of successful cases can be counted on your hands... the number of unsuccessful cases that end up with dead cleaner wrasses every year is something I don't even want to know. these are better left in the ocean to clean wild stock of parasites... if you've ever seen a line of fish waiting for a single cleaner wrasse's services in a wild reef, you would know why.

edit: another solution you might look into is neon gobies.

This is odd to me. I know 5 people including myself who have cleaner wrasses and have had them for over or close to a year. All of them eat nori and some eat mysis as well. These five wrasses were all eating in the lfs before being bought. Maybe the trick is to buy one that is already eating. I tried neon gobies because I was told they were a better choice but the two I had went into the rock he first day we bought them and I never saw them again. Guessing they died or got eaten.

blueyota · #8 04-12-2009, 01:20 AM

ok thanks all ... i think ill give one a try

justinl · #9 04-12-2009, 01:23 AM

alright, since my credibility is being questioned, read it yourselves.

from wetweb
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/labroide.htm

peer-reviewed journal
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3505553

wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaner_fish

It was noted on RC and other sources that it is unlikely that these wrasses are getting all the nutrition they need from prepared foods, thus leading to their eventual demise. Two years is not long term.

you guys are basically missing (or worse, ignoring?) my main point entirely. Let's say for argument's sake that these fish were as hardy as damsels and didn't have the abysmal death rate it currently sees in this trade. It should not have been removed from the ocean in the FIRST place. These species serve a vital role in the ocean. That's why you see lines of fish waiting at a cleaner wrasse's cleaning station. That's why you see these fish, completely unafraid of large predators like groupers, swimming around inside of their mouths picking at parasites. That's why said large predators choose to be cleaned over getting an easy meal. If they weren't such an important fish on the reefs, they would get eaten quickly after venturing in to see what shark teeth look like out of curiosity. Each cleaner wrasse station is a high demand function that serves a broad area (evidenced by lines of fish waiting their turn). Take away that fish and you remove this function from said broad area, depriving hundreds of wild fish of their parasite removal. Why? So you can save a handful of fish in a glass box.

And an interesting tidbit: they don't even eat ich. A study done by Alexandra Grutter, Parasite removal rates by the cleaner wrasse Labroides dimidiatus, 1996, examined stomach content and none of the fish stomachs they found contained ich. 99.7% +/- .06% was gnathid isopods, the rest were caligid and other parasitic copepods. None were cryptocaryon (a ciliate protozoan). I could see them taking ich ectoparasites in captivity (considering there's nothing else for them to eat) but would it be enough for them either nutritionally or in sheer volume? imo, no, not unless you have a full load of fish in a 1000g tank.

Another factor to consider: would it have any real impact on ich in the tank? imo no. They'll eat the ectoparasites but ich burrows under fish scales and cannot be eaten then, nor will they be eaten in their planktonic forms or in their cyst stage in the sand. The ectoparasitic stage of ich is shortlived. They will live in the sand damn nearly indefinitely (i think it was Eric Borneman who found this out by observations of a fishless tank) so you'll basically never actually get rid of the damn things.

A better approach is other cleaners like neon gobies and cleaner shrimp, which although I understand they are hit or miss on cleaning, at least they eat other things . If you didn't stock such that you can accommodate them, tough chickens. The other solution is to not let your fish get ich. QT. Dip. Choose livestock not known to be prone to death/infection. Be proactive, not reactive (generally a good rule of thumb in this hobby).

my2rotties · #10 04-12-2009, 02:11 AM

I'm going to get beat up for voicing my opinion, but I would never ever be without a cleaner wrasse. I went without one with this new system and when I added one almost four months ago, he became the holy grail of the tank. Fish were lining up for him to clean them off and still do to this day.

My cleaner wrasse went missing for a few hours a couple of weeks ago, and all the fish were frantically looking all over the place for the little. When he reappeared the fish all were swimming circles around him opening their mouths, waiting for cleaning.

IMO I think it is wrong to not have a cleaner wrasse in a big tank with lots of fish. I know they do not cure ich but I never see it on any of my fish anymore. My cleaner wrasse is busy cleaning my fish all day, what he cleans I am not sure of, but I feel he is essential to the health of my other fish. Any ocean photography I usually see has a cleaner wrasse cleaning the fish in the picture.

My clean wrasse eats the particles of the home made food I make for my puffer as well. He is fat for a wrasse and is growing. I can honestly say if he dies, I will replace him. My fish appreciate him and the services he does for them...