Copperband (pls. close)

[fiorano]

thats so sad... my cbb is my favorite fish and if he ever died id actually be depressed hes such a neat happy fish

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by fiorano

thats so sad... my cbb is my favorite fish and if he ever died id actually be depressed hes such a neat happy fish

Thanks. I kind of felt the same way about this one.

I had tried 4 over the past 6 years--all from stores and vowed never to buy one again from a store. I only tried this one since it was from a members tank and I think I really had it in my head that it would be a long term fish. Its so weird to have a fish that is happy and looks healthy and within hours, can't swim anymore and dies.

[fiorano]

yeah man i can honestly say i feel for you i now how id feel if i lost my buddy alex

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by naesco

Great decision hillegom.

It is very sad for me to see posters asking for information of a very difficult species and the only ones who care to post are those that have been lucky enough to keep them for a while.
Those who have repeatedly attempted to keep them and fail do not post their lack of success for some reason.

I applaud GSP for having the courage to do so and you who have made an informed decision based on his post.
Wayne

It is very unfortunate in this hobby that we deal with many failures, from discussing this with many retailers and aquarists the failure rate is likely as high as 97%, we do what we can and we learn from each other.

I too applaud GSP on his honesty and willingness to learn and share his experiences.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Mr OM

It is very unfortunate in this hobby that we deal with many failures, from discussing this with many retailers and aquarists the failure rate is likely as high as 97%, we do what we can and we learn from each other.

I too applaud GSP on his honesty and willingness to learn and share his experiences.

Well as I said earlier, I am not going to tell people not to buy these fish but I just hope other don't make my mistakes and go through 5 of them

What I did is not right and not fair to this species.

What I can say I have really learned from this (and has really sunk in finally) is that there are fish I would very much like to keep but just cannot. I need to do a better job of listening to people with more experience than me and do the right thing. I was told by an employee at a LFS after my third CBB not to bother trying again as he said hes been selling them for 10 years or more and a majority of the time the buyer comes back within a month to say it suddenly died. In his opinion, 100% of them were cyanide caught.

No more thinking or hoping I will 'get lucky' and one will survive. I knew it was a bad fish choice over and over again but tried anyways...pretty much once a year, twice within 3 months this time

There is no justifiable reason for me to make this hobby more selfish than it already is.

[my2rotties]

The employee at the LFS said these fish are probably caught with cyanide... that is a very serious allegation and I would imagine any reputable store would not buy fish knowing they are caught like this. You said your fish was fine in somebody else's tank until you got it. How do you know it is not something you have within your system?

I had the two angels that died within a week from each bought at the same store. I recall PMing you about the symptoms of cyanide and then after that did a heck of a lot of research and also brought fish bodies for examination... two stores even said it looked like cyanide. Since I seemed to have an answer to the cause of death, I went ahead and bought a young queen angel from a private seller. The fish had been in a tank for a few months and was healthy so I thought it was a safe choice. That fish was dead within ten days in my tank... same symptoms exactly as the others.

I then looked into things much further since this fish was from a totally different store then mine came from. Again I took the fih's body to be examined and got two answers that this could be cyanide or a bacterial disease... I was shown fish at the LFS suffering from the exact same thing as mine, and they were being treated for it...

I know cyanide is an answer we can accept since we do not have to take full responsibility for the deaths. However there can be other reasons aside of this and we should look into those options as well. I have no idea of how much these cyanide tests cost, but perhaps we should have a fund made on canreef to test a fish we suspect is caught like this. I know fish do get caught with it, but unless somebody can prove this is why fish just suddenly up and die, what's the point of talking about it.

So what does it cost and where does it get done? Who wants to put up some money for this, and GSP can get this fish tested since it seems to be cyanide poisoning. Who wants to step up and put a few bucks here and there to get this test done? How many members are here, and how many people care enough to set up a fund and donate to it?

At least perhaps we can see if this fish died form a cyanide or perhaps something else.

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Well as I said earlier, I am not going to tell people not to buy these fish but I just hope other don't make my mistakes and go through 5 of them

What I did is not right and not fair to this species.

What I can say I have really learned from this (and has really sunk in finally) is that there are fish I would very much like to keep but just cannot. I need to do a better job of listening to people with more experience than me and do the right thing. I was told by an employee at a LFS after my third CBB not to bother trying again as he said hes been selling them for 10 years or more and a majority of the time the buyer comes back within a month to say it suddenly died. In his opinion, 100% of them were cyanide caught.

No more thinking or hoping I will 'get lucky' and one will survive. I knew it was a bad fish choice over and over again but tried anyways...pretty much once a year, twice within 3 months this time

There is no justifiable reason for me to make this hobby more selfish than it already is.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

The employee at the LFS said these fish are probably caught with cyanide... that is a very serious allegation and I would imagine any reputable store would not buy fish knowing they are caught like this. You said your fish was fine in somebody else's tank until you got it. How do you know it is not something you have within your system?

I had the two angels that died within a week from each bought at the same store. I recall PMing you about the symptoms of cyanide and then after that did a heck of a lot of research and also brought fish bodies for examination... two stores even said it looked like cyanide. Since I seemed to have an answer to the cause of death, I went ahead and bought a young queen angel from a private seller. The fish had been in a tank for a few months and was healthy so I thought it was a safe choice. That fish was dead within ten days in my tank... same symptoms exactly as the others.

I then looked into things much further since this fish was from a totally different store then mine came from. Again I took the fih's body to be examined and got two answers that this could be cyanide or a bacterial disease... I was shown fish at the LFS suffering from the exact same thing as mine, and they were being treated for it...

I know cyanide is an answer we can accept since we do not have to take full responsibility for the deaths. However there can be other reasons aside of this and we should look into those options as well. I have no idea of how much these cyanide tests cost, but perhaps we should have a fund made on canreef to test a fish we suspect is caught like this. I know fish do get caught with it, but unless somebody can prove this is why fish just suddenly up and die, what's the point of talking about it.

So what does it cost and where does it get done? Who wants to put up some money for this, and GSP can get this fish tested since it seems to be cyanide poisoning. Who wants to step up and put a few bucks here and there to get this test done? How many members are here, and how many people care enough to set up a fund and donate to it?

At least perhaps we can see if this fish died form a cyanide or perhaps something else.

I can tell you almost EVERY 'reputable' store buys cyanide caught fish. There is not much of a way around it. Of course they know it happens but with absolutely no way to know how the fish they are ordering are caught, Im not sure what else they can do.

I think its a very serious allegation for you to insinuate I am using cyanide as a way to NOT take responsibility when I have posted about this in a very open and honest way. I don't appreciate that and that is EXACTLY the reason I was not going to post this and answers other questions above about why people don't want to post about things like this.

The Copperbands I have lost all died the same way and in in four completely different systems over 5 years. Actually if you count this tank as a new system after the transfer, its 5 different tanks. If there was a bacteria in all of them that happened to kill the fish...well I don't know what to say then.

Doing so much research would lead me to believe you have come across studies and facts that give you an idea of how real the cyanide problem is. I don't think testing of this or any other fish will prove anything new. It happens. Regardless of whether this fish died of cyanide or not, would it make a difference? If we found out that in fact it did not die of cyanide, would that mean we could ignore the fact that it happens and destroys reefs? Would it mean I should try another? What exactly would it prove?

I for one will not contribute a penny or minute of my time to any testing of fish. For one, not many places can do it and even less will care to bother. I doubt there is a lab that is going to be willing to test a 'pet' for no particular reason or want to get involved. If you perhaps are conducting a very controlled study to test for cyanide, maybe.

All the power to you if you want to continue to pursue this. I for one just don't see the point. It doesn't matter why these fish do not do well in captivity, it just matters that they do not. I don't need more reason than that to not buy them anymore and encourage people to do the same.

On the subject of cyanide fishing in general and what to do about it, there is already proof it happens, testing a few fish from Canreef isn't going to be some groundbreaking discovery that changes the hobby. What to do about it, I don't know. People are working on it and putting pressure on countries to deal with it. The Philippines are apparently starting to get tougher. Im not sure what your plans are but I can tell you that the best thing to do is avoid these fish and teach others the same. I will feel good about doing my part by not contributing to more CBB deaths or other species that are known to be cyanide caught...

Do what you may but please do not turn this into a guilt trip. I am not trying to justify anything here--far from it. I have admitted I have made some terrible mistakes and I was wrong. Very publicly. I have no intention of taking this fish to be blended up and tested in a lab (probably for thousands of $ if anyone will even do it) so that they can tell me it had traces of cyanide or not. Just doesn't matter.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

^^Sorry I am just super frustrated with this whole thing

If I am coming across as harsh then I apologize. Just the way I feel right now. I really didn't want this thread to get like this but of course there was the one poster who had to go there (not you).

I had hoped I could just tell the story and not have to worry about why this is happening (or turn this into a debate) and just accept the fact that it does and should not continue. I used to feel I needed to know the cause but with his one it sunk in--it doesn't matter! What will it change?

[my2rotties]

Sigh... I am not discounting your thoughts on cyanide, but you go into a store and tell them your fish died from cyanide poisoning. I was no way saying you are not taking responsibility in your fish's death. I know how it feels and it sucks.

At this point it should be "us" as hobbyists and consumers to get the testing done and take the tests back to the LFS... If the store cares they would look into their wholesalers and perhaps something get get done about this. If we just "think" it is cyanide, how are things supposed to ever change? We are just as much at fault for turning a blind eye to cyanide poisoning and continuing to buy fish we "suspect" get cyanide caught.

I in no way meant to be unsympathetic to you bringing this loss forward on the foums, but at this point what do we do?

If and when my CBB dies of what I suspect is cyanide poisoning, I will pay for the testing. I am sure someone on these forums must know of a place to send the fish to be tested. If you have something to prove this is the cause of death, then maybe things can change in the future.

If we sit there and do nothing as hobbyists, that are the bread and butter of this industry, then we are as much to blame as the people that poison the reefs and its inhabitants for our hobby.

I am so sorry for your losses as well as everyone else's... but what do we do from here? I do not judge people for their mistakes since I make mistakes myself. I do not take people's losses lightly at all. I have been there myself. I am sorry I offended you, but these fish continue to die and we do nothing about it. SO why can't a bunch of us hobbyists that care enough to get the testing done, pool the price of a CCB for each hobbyist and put it into a fund to get the ball rolling and make a difference?

Any one knowing of a place that can test fish that die of cyanide poisoning please chime in... Lets make something happen.

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

I can tell you almost EVERY 'reputable' store buys cyanide caught fish. There is not much of a way around it. Of course they know it happens but with absolutely no way to know how the fish they are ordering are caught, Im not sure what else they can do.

I think its a very serious allegation for you to insinuate I am using cyanide as a way to NOT take responsibility when I have posted about this in a very open and honest way. I don't appreciate that and that is EXACTLY the reason I was not going to post this and answers other questions above about why people don't want to post about things like this.

The Copperbands I have lost all died the same way and in in four completely different systems over 5 years. Actually if you count this tank as a new system after the transfer, its 5 different tanks. If there was a bacteria in all of them that happened to kill the fish...well I don't know what to say then.

Doing so much research would lead me to believe you have come across studies and facts that give you an idea of how real the cyanide problem is. I don't think testing of this or any other fish will prove anything new. It happens. Regardless of whether this fish died of cyanide or not, would it make a difference? If we found out that in fact it did not die of cyanide, would that mean we could ignore the fact that it happens and destroys reefs? Would it mean I should try another? What exactly would it prove?

I for one will not contribute a penny or minute of my time to any testing of fish. For one, not many places can do it and even less will care to bother. I doubt there is a lab that is going to be willing to test a 'pet' for no particular reason or want to get involved. If you perhaps are conducting a very controlled study to test for cyanide, maybe.

All the power to you if you want to continue to pursue this. I for one just don't see the point. It doesn't matter why these fish do not do well in captivity, it just matters that they do not. I don't need more reason than that to not buy them anymore and encourage people to do the same.

On the subject of cyanide fishing in general and what to do about it, there is already proof it happens, testing a few fish from Canreef isn't going to be some groundbreaking discovery that changes the hobby. What to do about it, I don't know. People are working on it and putting pressure on countries to deal with it. The Philippines are apparently starting to get tougher. Im not sure what your plans are but I can tell you that the best thing to do is avoid these fish and teach others the same. I will feel good about doing my part by not contributing to more CBB deaths or other species that are known to be cyanide caught...

Do what you may but please do not turn this into a guilt trip. I am not trying to justify anything here--far from it. I have admitted I have made some terrible mistakes and I was wrong. Very publicly. I have no intention of taking this fish to be blended up and tested in a lab (probably for thousands of $ if anyone will even do it) so that they can tell me it had traces of cyanide or not. Just doesn't matter.

[jsmth321]

Sorry to hear about the loss of your fish.

I am just as guilty of at some point trying to keep a fish with a poor track record, but over the last year or so I chosen to stop buying any wild caught animal, I do have less selection to choose from, but I am fine with it. Might not work for everyone, but I feel a little better about staying in the hobby.