Fishy!'s Long and Low 60ish Gallon

[Myka]

I'm waiting for paint to dry, so I did some rough calculations for you...

Assuming the actual dimensions of your back chamber is 39.5" long and 3.75" wide, and assuming the operating depth is 15", then you'll need just under 10 gallons of space in your sump, plus the volume your tank will drain (if it drains an inch that's a little over 3 gallons) and pipes/skimmer (shouldn't be more than 2-3 gallons), etc. So you need a total of about 16 gallons of empty space in the sump for full redundancy. If your sump is say 22" wide and you need say 9" depth in the sump, then if your sump is 24" long it will have 21 gallons in operating volume, add to that your 16 gallons, and if it's 16" deep (15" to be safe) you're probably going to overflow. If you made the sump 30 x 18 x 16" your operating volume would be 21 gallons, and total volume would be 35 gallons (to 15" depth). 21 + 16 = 37 gallons. That won't work either (for full redundancy). Play around with the numbers and you'll figure something out. Don't forget to consider the frag tank too. That'll throw a wrench in it.

36 x 18 x 16" total volume (to 15" height) is 41 gallons. Running volume at 9" depth is 24 gallons. Add 16 gallons to 24 is 40 gallons. Too close for comfort, and certainly won't work with your frag tank.

36 x 22 x 16" total volume (to 15" height) is 50 gallons. Running volume at 9" depth is 30 gallons. Add 16 gallons to 30 is 46 gallons. That gives you 4 gallons of "insurance" space.

36 x 22 x 17" total volume (to 16" height) is 53 gallons. Running volume at 9" depth is 30 gallons. Add 16 gallons to 30 is 46 gallons. That gives you another 3 more gallons of space, 7 gallons total. That's probably enough for your frag tank too depending how you plumb it.

[Fishy!]

Originally Posted by Myka

I'm waiting for paint to dry, so I did some rough calculations for you...

Assuming the actual dimensions of your back chamber is 39.5" long and 3.75" wide, and assuming the operating depth is 15", then you'll need just under 10 gallons of space in your sump, plus the volume your tank will drain (if it drains an inch that's a little over 3 gallons) and pipes/skimmer (shouldn't be more than 2-3 gallons), etc. So you need a total of about 16 gallons of empty space in the sump for full redundancy. If your sump is say 22" wide and you need say 9" depth in the sump, then if your sump is 24" long it will have 21 gallons in operating volume, add to that your 16 gallons, and if it's 16" deep (15" to be safe) you're probably going to overflow. If you made the sump 30 x 18 x 16" your operating volume would be 21 gallons, and total volume would be 35 gallons (to 15" depth). 21 + 16 = 37 gallons. That won't work either (for full redundancy). Play around with the numbers and you'll figure something out. Don't forget to consider the frag tank too. That'll throw a wrench in it.

36 x 18 x 16" total volume (to 15" height) is 41 gallons. Running volume at 9" depth is 24 gallons. Add 16 gallons to 24 is 40 gallons. Too close for comfort, and certainly won't work with your frag tank.

36 x 22 x 16" total volume (to 15" height) is 50 gallons. Running volume at 9" depth is 30 gallons. Add 16 gallons to 30 is 46 gallons. Hey, that might work...

Thanks Myka
This will definitely take a pad of paper and some time to figure out. The frag tank also throws another level of complexity to the equations. Any idea where a guy can find a chart with standard tank dimensions?

[Myka]

Originally Posted by Fishy!

Thanks Myka
This will definitely take a pad of paper and some time to figure out. The frag tank also throws another level of complexity to the equations. Any idea where a guy can find a chart with standard tank dimensions?

I added some more calculations above...the paint is still not dry...

http://www.aquariumdimensions.com/

If you want a standard tank for a sump you'll have to go with a 36" tank, and your options are 36 x 12 x 12" (20 long), 36 x 12 x 16" (called 29 or 30 gallon), 36 x 18 x 16" (40 gallon breeder), 36 x 18 x 18" (50 gallon, not usually easy to find), 36 x 18 x 21" (65 gallon).

36 x 18 x 18" (50 gallon) filled to 17" total volume is 46 gallons. Operating volume would be 24 gallons, plus 16 gallons is 40 gallons. 6 gallons spare. That would probably do the trick. I wouldn't want a sump deeper than 18" since it's too hard to reach into it. I think that's the only one that has the volume for you.

[Fishy!]

Originally Posted by Myka

36 x 22 x 16" total volume (to 15" height) is 50 gallons. Running volume at 9" depth is 30 gallons. Add 16 gallons to 30 is 46 gallons. That gives you 4 gallons of "insurance" space.

36 x 22 x 17" total volume (to 16" height) is 53 gallons. Running volume at 9" depth is 30 gallons. Add 16 gallons to 30 is 46 gallons. That gives you another 3 more gallons of space, 7 gallons total. That's probably enough for your frag tank too depending how you plumb it.

The problem I see here is that the total stand dims is going to be 22" deep. I then have to accommodate for the material to make the stands structure which is likely 4.5". That only leaves me with approx 16" of space. This is going to have to be one tall sump!

[Myka]

Originally Posted by Fishy!

The problem I see here is that the total stand dims is going to be 22" deep. I then have to accommodate for the material to make the stands structure which is likely 4.5". That only leaves me with approx 16" of space. This is going to have to be one tall sump!

Design your stand so it can accommodate an 18" wide sump at the least (or you're forced into a custom sump). You should have no problem doing this.

What kind of floors do you have in near the tank? What's being risked?

[Fishy!]

Originally Posted by Myka

What kind of floors do you have in near the tank? What's being risked?

Nothing special. Laminate that should prob be replaced. It's in the basement. If it overflows every time the power goes out, that kinda a big deal tho.

[Fishy!]

Ok, after some digging this is what I have come up with.
If I were to get my hands on a 37 gallon tank: 30x12x22
If it were filled to 30x12x21 = 32.7 gallons
If I have a running height of 10" (prob high) 30x12x10=15.6 gals
Therefore 33.7-15.6=17.1gals with 1" of sump space to spare.
We (you actuall, thanks) determined my total back flow volume is 16gallons being generous.
Based off of these numbers a 37gal AGA should work? Am I missing something?
The stand will be 36-40" tall so there should be plenty of room to accommodate the height.
Thanks for tanking the time to work through this with me.

[Myka]

You will hate life if your sump is 22" deep and inside a stand. Depending which skimmer you use, that means the top of the skimmer would be almost level with the top of the sump.

I would really try to modify your stand design to accommodate a sump 18" wide. Are you using 2x4s? I can mock up a design for you, or find a pic online. The trouble with bottom drilled tanks is that there isn't room at the back of the tank to run a 2x4 because the bulkheads will be in the way. That's why I went with a steel stand for my tank. The steel is 1" rather than 1.5" with a 2x4 which is the difference between it fitting and not fitting. Do you want your stand to be flush with the tank and thus be 40 x 22" or do you want the stand to be a bit bigger than the actual tank? If the stand can be 41 x 23" then you'll have room behind the bulkheads to run a 2x4 on edge. How tall do you want your stand?

[Myka]

Many people place the sump on the floor, and the stand framing is around it, so the sump has to fit between the framing. If you put a bottom in the stand then you can put the sump on top of that and there will be more width (but less height for a skimmer).

Like this:



Instead of this:

[Fishy!]

Originally Posted by Myka

I would really try to modify your stand design to accommodate a sump 18" wide. Are you using 2x4s?

This was my intention. I am a carpenter by trade, it shouldn't be much of a challenge to build.

Originally Posted by Myka

The trouble with bottom drilled tanks is that there isn't room at the back of the tank to run a 2x4 because the bulkheads will be in the way. That's why I went with a steel stand for my tank. The steel is 1" rather than 1.5" with a 2x4 which is the difference between it fitting and not fitting.

This has been my fear all along, and I have been meaning to message Matt to get the distance from edge of bulkhead to the back of the tank. I actually had one of my welders do up a quote for a steel stand, worked out to being approx $325!!!!!! in material alone. That doesn't even account for his time and rods. The steel stand dream is quickly fading, unless i can find an alternate source for cheaper/free material.

Originally Posted by Myka

Do you want your stand to be flush with the tank and thus be 40 x 22"

This will be ideal.

Originally Posted by Myka

...or do you want the stand to be a bit bigger than the actual tank?
If the stand can be 41 x 23" then you'll have room behind the bulkheads to run a 2x4 on edge.

This is a worst scenario as the area the tank will be going is going to be tight as it is with a 22" depth. I would almost rather have a back bracket made from steel in lou of the back 2x4 on edge.

Originally Posted by Myka

How tall do you want your stand?

Somewhere between 32-40" I am flexible on this. I think i will likely settle on 36" height.