The dearth of spirited discussion

[Delphinus]

I used to frequently obsess over this hobby but lately I feel almost a bit pushed away from it, and one huge driver is the sheer cost of things compared to a decade ago. Whereas in the early days, there were lots of expensive things, there were also a lot of DIY attitudes and experimentation that made things fun. I don't seem to see a lot of that cowboy'ing anymore?

Now everytime I see a new product, first of all, there's pressure to "preorder" it before it's even hit the market; and odds are good that whatever it is, I can't afford it anyhow. Part of it is my own station in life, have kids now, other expenses other priorities etc. but my own subjective feel is that it just costs more now.

[Aquattro]

I find it's actually cheaper now. My original set of Tunze pumps cost $1000. I can move the same water now for a fraction of that. Many items haven't changed at all. Bulbs are cheaper, heaters, about the same, salt, about the same. Sure, all the new fancy gimmick toys cost more, but they aren't really needed. I'm actually surprised prices have stayed as constant, or in some cases, dropped as they have.

Only thing I see costing more are frags. Where 20 years ago I could buy a whole bucket of nice frags for 100 bucks, now I get one frag.

I think keeping reefs has also become much easier. When I started, it was a craft to get a nice SPS tank. You had to work at it. Now, it seems it's add water and stir. Takes the challenge out of it

My biggest thoughts these days are thoughts of envy when I see people posting shut down sales. Maybe another year or two for me, just to get this tank where I planned, then I'm done. Just tired of it all.

[squibege]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

I used to frequently obsess over this hobby but lately I feel almost a bit pushed away from it, and one huge driver is the sheer cost of things compared to a decade ago. Whereas in the early days, there were lots of expensive things, there were also a lot of DIY attitudes and experimentation that made things fun. I don't seem to see a lot of that cowboy'ing anymore?

Now everytime I see a new product, first of all, there's pressure to "preorder" it before it's even hit the market; and odds are good that whatever it is, I can't afford it anyhow. Part of it is my own station in life, have kids now, other expenses other priorities etc. but my own subjective feel is that it just costs more now.

As a newbie I'm scared to attempt to DIY stuff.The fear of harming my tank is greater than my disappointment at shelling out $$. I saw a post on how to build a skimmer from an air stone and a waterbottle. I would WAY rather do that than spend a couple hundred bucks- but I don't trust being able to figure our how its working for my tank. Purchasing something a fancy company has poured R&D into just seems 'safer' even if it is way less fun.

Money is what has kept me at bay from starting up this hobby for years.

[Myka]

I've found in the last 5 years that there is so much more science behind it all that there isn't as much to debate in any given topic. There are more scientists involved, and papers you can read. There aren't any reef related scientists here or even members with associated degrees. I find all sorts of interesting topics on other forums where really qualified people can answer questions and not so much debate, but work as a group to figure things out. That's what I think is lacking at Canreef - REAL experts. The sponsors aren't as active as they used to be a few years ago either. Aside from good discussions on "new" topics, I like to read Tank Journals.

[Scythanith]

Originally Posted by Myka

There aren't any reef related scientists here or even members with associated degrees.

Speak for yourself 4 yr B.Sc. with Hon in Palaeobiology. I studied my fair share of fossilized vertebrates and invertebrates

But I know what you mean, I'm not elbow deep in the aquatic research tanks anymore.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by Scythanith

Speak for yourself 4 yr B.Sc. with Hon in Palaeobiology. I studied my fair share of fossilized vertebrates and invertebrates

But I know what you mean, I'm not elbow deep in the aquatic research tanks anymore.

I'm not sure that's directly relatable - except maybe Coelacanths.

[Scythanith]

Originally Posted by Myka

I'm not sure that's directly relatable - except maybe Coelacanths.

Biological science is pretty widespread. Understanding the evolution and development of a vertebrate embryo translates across a pretty wide range of fields

There is a lot of chemistry on keeping a reef healthy. Do you need to have a Ph. D. in organic chem to understand it all? Nope. I personally feel a moderate knowledge of life sciences can allow anyone to grasp everything you need to know about keeping a tank healthy and flourishing.

Now the practice of doing such is completely different. Many people can understand something but cannot capitalize on that knowledge.

And I wish I would have been at the Smithsonian in Washington to see the Coelacanth An old invertebrate palaeontology professor of mine works there now and could have had a pretty sweet tour!

[Madreefer]

Originally Posted by Myka

I've found in the last 5 years that there is so much more science behind it all that there isn't as much to debate in any given topic. There are more scientists involved, and papers you can read. There aren't any reef related scientists here or even members with associated degrees. I find all sorts of interesting topics on other forums where really qualified people can answer questions and not so much debate, but work as a group to figure things out. That's what I think is lacking at Canreef - REAL experts. The sponsors aren't as active as they used to be a few years ago either. Aside from good discussions on "new" topics, I like to read Tank Journals.

Myself I would rather not read nor hear from scientists. They're write ups are totally boring and put me to sleep. I'd much rather hear from a hobbyist, it's easier and way more interesting as they speak in layman's terms. I've read so many posts from the cut copy and paste scientists and they are proven wrong so many times. People take this hobby way too far and it's really not as difficult as one thinks. It scares people away constantly hearing that scientific talk. That and the cost of the hobby.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Well locally, almost all the old-timer fellow reefers I knew in the early 2000s have since quit, completely downsized or are in a holding pattern (ie. not changing anything & no longer participating much). For me, not having my buddies in this hobby anymore is a real bummer. I understand though because life happens. When things change, like having kids or kids growing old and more involved in extracurricular activities, its hard to stay focused and devote a lot of time to reefing. Also, sometimes work is just so busy that there's little time to do more than take a quick look at the "New Posts" items and then back to work.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by Madreefer

Myself I would rather not read nor hear from scientists. They're write ups are totally boring and put me to sleep. I'd much rather hear from a hobbyist, it's easier and way more interesting as they speak in layman's terms. I've read so many posts from the cut copy and paste scientists and they are proven wrong so many times. People take this hobby way too far and it's really not as difficult as one thinks. It scares people away constantly hearing that scientific talk. That and the cost of the hobby.

Oh I love when I read something I don't understand. That means I have to go learn something. I find it way more interesting to try to extract bits and pieces and apply it to some new methodology or using that information to define anecdotal evidence.