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#1
11-07-2014, 01:09 AM
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http://theaquariumwiki.com/Stray_current hopefully that link works its a fairly good write up actually. My guess is we are dealing with the Magnetic Induction my tank reads at 60 volts but i get no real current flow reading. As a point of interest though i am going to keep an eye on this phenomenon in my tank for a while mostly as an academic exercise for myself.
The strange voltages on your power bar are still baffling, did you have your equipment still plugged into it when you tested it? Was the reading hot to neutral, the 2 slots of the plug, or were the measurements to the ground spot?
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Electromagician by day, Reefer by night. Last edited by Wildechild_01; 11-07-2014 at 01:20 AM. Reason: forgot a thought 
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#2
11-07-2014, 01:52 AM
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So just finished doing some tests. Followed THIS link checking my GFCI, and got the same results so it must be installed correctly.
Not sure what i was doing wrong last night but i tested the Coralife powerbar again with a lot less clutter around and was able to get proper readings, no issue with the powerbar. SORRY for the confusion, it puts out 120v 'ish. it has these turning child protectors on it and is real pain in the a$$ to get these little voltmeter probes in there/ got 40 a few more times and figured out the angle First, with nothing plugged in. Positive probe in tank and negative probe of voltmeter in ground on socket still reads 2.7v, I put the ground probe in the water and it drops to 0, i figure with the probe it would release any stray voltage from the water, but nope, no matter how many times the rid-volt goes into the water it jumps back to 2.7, still with nothing plugged in. Tank water will not read 0 without Rid-volt TEST #1 So + in tank, - in ground on GFCI (This time i plug in each device and then unplug and move to the next one) 2.7v w/nothing T5 Lights = 4.6 Koralia = 15 Aquaclear = 9.5 Skimmer = 20.6 Heater = 22.0 Test #2 This time, same as above but the Rid-volt is now plugged in and in the tank. 0.0 w/ nothing T5 Lights = 0.0 Koralia = 0.0 Aquaclear = 0.0 Skimmer = 0.0 Heater = 0.0 Now i try i different circuit from the kitchen via an extension cord Test #3 So + in tank, - in ground on powerbar plugged into extension cord ( I only used the powerbar on this test cause i needed a ground from that circuit to use. Theres a 50 foot power cord being used now so that may explain the lower numbers from test #1 0.7v w/nothing T5 Lights = 2.7 Koralia = 10.7 Aquaclear = 7.1 Skimmer = 18.2 Heater = 20.4 Test #4 Same as test #3 bu this time on the other circuit 0.0 w/ nothing T5 Lights = 0.0 Koralia = 0.0 Aquaclear = 0.0 Skimmer = 0.0 Heater = 0.0 hmmm, all my equipment appears to be faulty now?? Is it at all possible that my un-grounded T5 issue from 2 weeks ago could have caused other equipment to slowly break down the ability to not release stray voltage? Last edited by GoFish; 11-07-2014 at 01:55 AM.
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#3
11-07-2014, 02:03 AM
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Going out for drinks with some friends pretty quick, just had a glance at that article and you may have discovered the issue with one of Cardinal fish! HLLE?! I posted a while ago about it but never figured it out
Seen HERE And just tested for current, 0  Thanks again for help, i'll reply when i have more time later on Cheers Last edited by GoFish; 11-07-2014 at 02:08 AM.
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#4
11-07-2014, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
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#5
11-07-2014, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
As I posted previously, I have no voltage in my tank, so I'm comfortable using a grounding probe as I know my fish are not being subjected to a constant voltage I've read (probably just in humor) that if your fish start swimming in one east/west or north/south direction you should check your voltage  So, again, I'd say you're good to go with the grounding probe, but it's too bad you can't get your numbers down to near single decimals
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#6
11-07-2014, 02:25 AM
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Oops, wait a minute ...
Sorry, I'm reading too fast and not absorbing your info I forgot to add up all your numbers If it were me, I'd like to see the total voltage below 20ish Inspect all your hardware cords for damage/salt intrusion etc and go from there
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#7
11-07-2014, 04:00 AM
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T5 Lights = Magnetic Ballasts and fluorescent lamps - generate magnetic fields, this will create an electrical charge when the magnetic fields interact with the salt water. Voltage is created but it is not "leaking" from the fixture into the water. Smallest offender (now that you have properly grounded the ballasts and fixture) because magnetic field needs to cross air gap before getting to water so weaker fields interacting with water. When the fixture was not properly grounded all metal parts of the fixture would have had some induced voltage in them as well now those induced voltages can go to ground safely rather than messing with the tank even more. Koralia = Motor = spinning magnets. Spinning Magnets + salt water = more generated electrical charge again without actually leaking voltage from the equipment. The above applies to everything with a motor so skipping to.... Heaters - This is probably the most likely to actually be leaking voltage, if it was actually leaking voltage though i would expect the GFCI to trip when you use the rid-volt. Heaters however operate by running electricity through a coil of wire designed to conduct a little poorly and heat up. Now you have a coil of wire with alternating current running through it, without getting too technical this also results in magnetic fields being generated they expand and contract moving across the conductor that is the salt water, again voltage will be generated. Checking my tank I sit around 60v, a little higher than yours but if i remember correctly you said your set up is 90G, the water can only hold a certain amount of charge (like a battery) my 125G would then be able to hold a little more. adding a ground probe to my tank also drops the voltage to zero with no measurable current ... okay full disclosure i managed to get a 5 microAmp reading with my "i don't want to talk about what i paid for it" volt meter. with no measurable current flowing probably safe for fish to leave probe in. Quote:
My Guess is that there is nothing wrong with any of your equipment. The voltages you are reading are a result of Magnetic Induction. If you are getting a zero on current measurements then i say toss the probe in and be done with it. If anything does break in anyway and starts to leak any power the probe will then let the GFCI trip. Aaandd... Bed Time gotta go play electrician super early tomorrow....  at least its almost the weekend
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Electromagician by day, Reefer by night.
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#8
11-07-2014, 05:16 AM
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I'm just going to throw this out there, and it's my opinion only, but I'll stand by it ....
My tank has no voltage in it at all (OK 0.07) O volts with no probes tells me my equipment is good Being told someone has 60volts and is OK with it is wrong  No offence to whoever has this situation, but that's just messed up and will never be me
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#9
11-07-2014, 02:39 PM
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Part of the purpose behind my posts is that now that I am observing the phenomenon I am intrigued by it and looking into what is happening and how/why. Knowing that you can induce a voltage into the water with a pump I can say that you can measure a voltage without your equipment being faulty. Just applying my knowledge to the situation, actually planning to replace some items, and try some other maintenance to see how it affect the situation. Really this has turned into a bit of an experimentation situation for me and I may be nerding out to it a little excessively since it combines my hobby and career  I guess the point I am making is that this is not a unique situation and that there are reasons for it and ways to deal with it that do not involve spending potentially hundreds of dollars only to end up in the same situation. With older motors now fighting against some extra resistance as gunk builds up in the motor, or even just regular old wearing out.. these pumps pretty much run 24/7 for years, they will in theory now start to pull more power and potentially induce even more voltage into the tank and so replacing them will then theoretically reduce the voltages in your tank. I am running a 3 yr old Reef Octopus Skimmer and my return pump is also around the 3 yr mark. I also noted that all of the submerged pumps in my tank do not have grounded cords, they are all 2 prong not 3. This is allowed because the casings on the pumps and the majority of the components are plastic. Some higher end pumps would contain more metallic parts and will probably use the 3 prong cords. In that situation the metal parts of the pump exposed to the water will now be acting in place of the ground probes that we add to the tanks, so you are still inducing a voltage into the water your equipment is simply providing that ground path to dissipate it. Without actually seeing a setup I can not say for certain this is happening but it is definitely a real possibility when looking at the electrical theory. For my own curiosity gregzz do you have grounded, 3 prong plug, equipment in your tank? Aaaannny way.... Replacing old equipment with new may help, and making sure items with a ground are properly connected to a ground especially if the equipment is submerged. Don't panic and replace everything without thinking about it, but YES it is a good idea to aim for a low of a voltage reading and if replacing equipment helps then that is a good idea. I'm going to continue playing with my equipment and tank as time allows and as I learn more I will update my thoughts and oppinions, unless of course you don't want me to haha.
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Electromagician by day, Reefer by night.
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#10
11-07-2014, 06:56 PM
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So im getting the feeling that the grounding probe does absolutely nothing to protect the fish corals and other tank inhabitants from harm, it only prevents me from getting zapped (to a certain extent). With the grounding probe present in the tank if I stood in a puddle with bare feet on a metal drain cover that was earth grounded it would make sense that I could possibly absorb enough current to get harmed (if there was actual current in the tank). The probe seems more like a comfort thing. I swear that with a grounding probe in the tank and voltage showing 4.0 volts from my first post I still felt a tingle in a cut on a finger, but not uncomfortable. For a fish to actually feel the current or voltage wouldn't it have to jump out of the water and give a ground probe a high five with its tail in the water?!
I haven't honestly seen any difference in any livestock in the tank with the probe or without. It's like they are in their own little world no matter what. If I drop a toaster in the water while in the bath tub, before the breaker trips I'm most likely dead, period. However if I'm swimming In the ocean or in a really big swimming pool not touching the beach or the edge of the pool and someone threw a toaster in the water would I even feel it?I'll talk to J+L where I bought the skimmer and see if this could be a warranty issue, it continuously gives high voltage readings (20ish volts) Wildechild, it's interesting you get nearly the same reading I do, I wonder how many people on the forum would get voltage readings. The tank is only 20 gallons BtW Let there be a poll!  And back to something I previously mentioned. Is there any chance that my recent T5 light fixture issues caused my other equipment to do the same, leak voltage? If so maybe I should replace ALL my equipment at the same time, other wise I risk having the same thing snowball again... Last edited by GoFish; 11-07-2014 at 07:07 PM.
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