Refugium with chaeto or bio-pellet reactor

[davej]

Originally Posted by reefwars

Personally I would use a soluable carbon source like vinegar or vodka or mox of both instead of pellets.

With pellets there really is no control , you run the risk of the pellets failing if the reactor fails and not to mention they take up space , smell and are expensive.

If space is available I would combine a few different export methods .

Macro algae , GAC /gfo , carbon dosing , skimming etc.

my zoanthid systems are vinegar dosed and that keeps nitrates undetectable and po4 is also undetectable on a Hanna phosphorous.

With po4 so low the beauty is I can cut my carbon doses down if I need to or raise as I need to.

Between vodka , pellets and vinegar I've noticed that the zoanthids respond very well to the acetic acid and growth and colors couldn't be better.

Can you recommend any good write ups on vinegar dosing?
Any advantage or disadvantage between vinegar and vodka?

[iceman86]

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....arine-aquarium

Some people tend to get cyano with vodka

[reefwars]

Here is an incredible thread explaining what carbon dosing is and does.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2134105


Here is a link to the directions for vinegar or vodka

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....arine-aquarium

No advantages by using either as they end up in the same path it's just vodka takes a extra step to get there.

Some people report less cyano using vinegar , some end up using a lot with big tanks so go with vodka or a mix of both.

Vinegar has an immediate effect of ph drop , so it's recommended to spread it out over the course of a day if you have to us a lot . In my home system of 200g I dose 72ml of vinegar as soon as the lights come on . To offset the ph drop I also time my doser to dose soda ash. I don't get much of a drop in ph on this tank.

A while back I switched out the bio pellets on a 500g reef , I was having issues with chalices , a lot of acros and the list goes on. Finally I decided to pull the pellets and switch it out to vinegar , it took one month for the vinegar to completely do what the pellets were doing . I immediately saw better results in all sps and all lps........my issues were gone in one month. The dose for this tank is big though at 475ml a day so it has to be broke down and dosed over a photo period.


Now the chart above shows a 16 week dosing schedule , most people do it on a 4 week chart like this.

0.1 ml per gallon for 7 days(week 1 )
0.2 ml per gallon for 7 days (week 2)
0.3 ml per gallon for 7 days (week 3 )
0.4 ml per gallon for 7 days (week4)

Whether you decide to go above 0.4 ml per gallon will depend on your bioload and nutrients as well method removed.

Randy's personal guideline for vinegar is 15ml per 100g


Keep in mind that vodka is 8x stronger than vinegar , so one of the reasons I chose vinegar over vodka is because the dose is a little less potent per ml added.

Before going head on do some research on it all. Bio pellets are also a form of carbon dosing

You have to monitor nitrates and phosphates , keep your skimmer cup cleaned regularly and cosistency is the key to bacterial growth and export.

Before doing any of the above your system should be brought down to at least average reef conditions as far as nitrates and phosphates go . Either being off the chart is going to be hard to work with as there is a ratio of how bacteria take in and use nutrients.

None of this interferes with your calcium and alkalinity dosing schedule .

Good luck

[davej]

Originally Posted by reefwars

Now the chart above shows a 16 week dosing schedule , most people do it on a 4 week chart like this.

0.1 ml per gallon for 7 days(week 1 )
0.2 ml per gallon for 7 days (week 2)
0.3 ml per gallon for 7 days (week 3 )
0.4 ml per gallon for 7 days (week4)

Whether you decide to go above 0.4 ml per gallon will depend on your bioload and nutrients as well method removed.

Randy's personal guideline for vinegar is 15ml per 100g

Denny a question for you.
I have been dosing vinegar on the 4 week schedule like you suggested.
Really happy with how things are looking.
Have been at 0.4 ml for about 3-4 weeks so far.
Phosphates read near zero to zero but nitrates hover around 10 ppm.
Don't have a large bio load and I think I feed fairly light.
Running an omega 150 for a skimmer and cant seem to get a good dark skimmate out of it always seems to skim fairly wet weak tea colored fluid.
Could this be a factor?
Could it just be too much skimmer for my setup?
Should I bump the vinegar up a little more?
What level do you settle in at on a daily basis?
Is it the 0.4 or different?

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by davej

Denny a question for you.
I have been dosing vinegar on the 4 week schedule like you suggested.
Really happy with how things are looking.
Have been at 0.4 ml for about 3-4 weeks so far.
Phosphates read near zero to zero but nitrates hover around 10 ppm.
Don't have a large bio load and I think I feed fairly light.
Running an omega 150 for a skimmer and cant seem to get a good dark skimmate out of it always seems to skim fairly wet weak tea colored fluid.
Could this be a factor?
Could it just be too much skimmer for my setup?
Should I bump the vinegar up a little more?
What level do you settle in at on a daily basis?
Is it the 0.4 or different?

If there's no signs of stress then you can go higher for sure , once nitrates drop to zero you can always slowly cut back , just watch your ph and if you need to spread your dose out.

If phosphates are too low you can always feed a little more or cut out gfo if running it

Your skimmer is most likely a factor , skimmate should be dark almost black you'll know when it's working , I don't think that skimmer is overpowered fwiw but still you should be able to tune it to do it so there's an issue there IMO .

Keep an eye out for the signs of too much like white films on the glass or cloudy water and keep an eye on your livestock

I've made it to 1ml per gallon on setups and on average about 0.4 ml per gallon so the numbers can vary from system to system but you can fine tune it and it's a little forgiving

Once you find your mainatance dose it's pretty set and forget

[davej]

Originally Posted by reefwars

If there's no signs of stress then you can go higher for sure , once nitrates drop to zero you can always slowly cut back , just watch your ph and if you need to spread your dose out.

If phosphates are too low you can always feed a little more or cut out gfo if running it

Your skimmer is most likely a factor , skimmate should be dark almost black you'll know when it's working , I don't think that skimmer is overpowered fwiw but still you should be able to tune it to do it so there's an issue there IMO .

Keep an eye out for the signs of too much like white films on the glass or cloudy water and keep an eye on your livestock

I've made it to 1ml per gallon on setups and on average about 0.4 ml per gallon so the numbers can vary from system to system but you can fine tune it and it's a little forgiving

Once you find your mainatance dose it's pretty set and forget

Ok cool, just bumped it up to .5 to see how it goes
I am dosing over a 5 hour period with 10 equal doses, definitely have some white film in the sump where it is being dosed but main tank and water still nice and clear. will work on skimmer output

[reefaddik]

Here is a couple pics of my refugium set up in my basement below my display. It's the way to go hands down.

[hfp75]

Do both... put the refugium before the pellet reactor. that way there is nutrients for the algaes (from the nutrient rich return tank water)... then run it through a biopellet reactor and aim the return from the reactor to the intake of the skimmer. DONE!

This way you will have some chaeto/caulerpa and all the critters that are good - not practical to export all the nutrients this way but a few. Use the Pellet reactor to get rid of the bulk of the nutrients... probably leaving a bit of PO4 and then in the last chamber run a small pump 300 gph through a TLF150 with Rowa (just gate it back for the right flow)..... your return water (to the tank) should be very clean....

Start with 1/2 of what is recommended for the biopellets and see what happens to your nutrient levels (give it a few weeks for bacteria to grow).... remember that some NO3 and PO4 is not bad.... I keep my NO3 @ < 10 (average 5) and my PO4 at <.1

I am using this method... everything is happy and I dont need to fuss with dosing anything.... super easy and simple - reactor is always running. Bacteria grows & dies off of the pellets as nutrients allow, it is like a shock absorber.... and you don't need to mess with it.... it just runs - with vodka and sugar you are always messing with the dosing and it can be a PITA...

Just my opinion....