Considering upgrade and going sumpless

[ponokareefer]

Originally Posted by mike31154

I've been running sumpless since I started in the hobby in '07. Future plan is to go with a larger tank & basement sump/fishroom, but that's been a plan for a long time now.... may or may not happen. Too many other things impacting the budget these days.

At any rate, nothing wrong with sumpless, one less power item to worry about, a return pump & associated plumbing. You'll definitely have more gear visible unless you find creative ways to hide it. Not just stuff in the tank, but also your skimmer, but you already know that. The other thing you'll need to have on hand is a top off container & method to manage the top off automatically, unless you plan on doing that manually... not recommended. I use a 7 gallon glass wine making carboy pressurized by an air pump on a timer for my ATO. There's a mechanical float valve in the display to ensure the ghetto ATO doesn't overfill the tank. Keeps the 77 gallon topped up for about 7 days, give or take, depending on season, room temp, etc.

I've rigged up a bracket affair with nylon screws threaded into it to hold chaeto for added nitrate control near the surface on the back of the tank. Not that obtrusive, but visible & probably not the most aesthetically pleasing thing to look at for reef purists, but functional. There's enough interesting stuff going on in the tank to draw the eye away from all the ugly gear to keep most folks entertained. My tank will never make TOTM photo by any means, but I keep it for my pleasure, no one else. So if you're ok with some of these issues, go for it.

How come you want a sump for your larger system?

[freddy]

Sumpless 75 gallon for 5 yrs,just keep your bioload low and you will be fine

[Aquattro]

Curious why you don't want a sump? For the cost of an old 75g or something, it hides all the stuff. You don't need large overflow boxes, you could have a single pipe.
A sump does give you more options for skimmers, heaters, reactors, etc.

All that being said, the sump really only hides gear. If you can arrange all your equipment off the back and sides, then there's no real difference.

[ponokareefer]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Curious why you don't want a sump? For the cost of an old 75g or something, it hides all the stuff. You don't need large overflow boxes, you could have a single pipe.
A sump does give you more options for skimmers, heaters, reactors, etc.

All that being said, the sump really only hides gear. If you can arrange all your equipment off the back and sides, then there's no real difference.

I find the overflow box and sump seem to get filled with dietrus over time and just seems like another thing that needs to be cleaned. The plumbing underneath I have never been a fan of and just don't like the idea of holes in the glass and feel that the seals/plumbing are going to fail at some point or another. Maybe I'm just paranoid, lol.

I dislike the overflow boxes as I find them a large eyesore and I hate having to adjust flow/rocks around them. My Tunze Skimmer is tiny compared to one of the boxes and if I got a Tunze Comline filter as well, the combination of the 2 will still be considerably smaller. The benefit of hiding everything in the sump seems odd to me if you are having to create a big box, or overflow of some kind that intrudes into the tank as well. I guess each person has there own taste though, mine seeming in the minority.

Also, I never seem to get a quiet system with the sump set up. There just always seems to be the sound of water falling/gurgling somewhere. The system is in an office and it would be nice if the system was as close to silent as possible.

People talk about the benefits of gas exchange from a sump. Could this not be obtained by having powerheads aimed at the surface of the water, or is it considerably better with a sump and your tank mates will die without it in a large system?

I will agree with mike that the photo period you can create in your sump to keep the PH stable is not something obtainable without it. The increased volume also helps, but I am upgrading to get that volume. If I wanted another 60 gallons of volume to make the system more stable, why not get a 300 gallon display tank instead of a 240 gallon with a sump?

On the whole, it just seems like something that makes the system more complicated, more work, more prone for something to fail and more expensive. I like to try to use the KISS rule in life, and the sump seems to be the opposite of that, with little benefits I can't obtain by doing other things that are simpler. That is unless there is something that I am still not realizing/considering. I prefer a less stocked system to allow the occupants more space, so that is not an issue for me as well.

[ponokareefer]

Seems I need a minimum 1/2 inch glass for this size of tank if I definitely don't want top cross bracing, and the Tunze skimmer and filter I was to use can only be used up to 3/8 inch thick glass. I guess that throws a wrench into this idea.

[corpusse]

Why not get a tank with an external overflow if you dislike internal?

To me a sumpless tank is a downgrade not an upgrade.

[Aquattro]

I'd guess you need thicker than 1/2" if you want no bracing at all!

Overflow boxes can be very small, or don't use one at all. Just have a single pipe plumbed through the upper back. Less unsightly than equipment hanging off the back.
Use filter socks to keep the sump clean.

My system is virtually silent, no sound of water at all. This is using a durso style pipe.
Gas exchange can be handled fine without a sump, but it does help.
Plumbing is hidden and honestly, if it's set up properly, it's never going to leak.

Lots of people run without it, but personally, I would never even consider it. My tank is clean, quiet and has no gear visible. I couldn't handle heaters and skimmers all hanging in the tank.

[whatcaneyedo]

Perhaps something has recently been introduced to the market but I have never seem a hang on skimmer that was anywhere near as good as the majority of in-sump and external skimmers available. That is my main issue with sump-less. I'll admit I haven't gotten a good look at many Tunzes but their low popularity concerns me. The other is that without something like an overflow drain providing surface skimming an oily protein/bacterial film tends to form on the surface of the water. Oh and I hate power-heads. Absolutely hate looking at them in a display tank. At the moment a large return pump allows me avoid them, later it will be that return pump and a closed loop system.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by ponokareefer

I find the overflow box and sump seem to get filled with dietrus over time and just seems like another thing that needs to be cleaned. The plumbing underneath I have never been a fan of and just don't like the idea of holes in the glass and feel that the seals/plumbing are going to fail at some point or another. Maybe I'm just paranoid, lol.

I dislike the overflow boxes as I find them a large eyesore and I hate having to adjust flow/rocks around them. My Tunze Skimmer is tiny compared to one of the boxes and if I got a Tunze Comline filter as well, the combination of the 2 will still be considerably smaller. The benefit of hiding everything in the sump seems odd to me if you are having to create a big box, or overflow of some kind that intrudes into the tank as well. I guess each person has there own taste though, mine seeming in the minority.

Also, I never seem to get a quiet system with the sump set up. There just always seems to be the sound of water falling/gurgling somewhere. The system is in an office and it would be nice if the system was as close to silent as possible.

People talk about the benefits of gas exchange from a sump. Could this not be obtained by having powerheads aimed at the surface of the water, or is it considerably better with a sump and your tank mates will die without it in a large system?

I will agree with mike that the photo period you can create in your sump to keep the PH stable is not something obtainable without it. The increased volume also helps, but I am upgrading to get that volume. If I wanted another 60 gallons of volume to make the system more stable, why not get a 300 gallon display tank instead of a 240 gallon with a sump?

On the whole, it just seems like something that makes the system more complicated, more work, more prone for something to fail and more expensive. I like to try to use the KISS rule in life, and the sump seems to be the opposite of that, with little benefits I can't obtain by doing other things that are simpler. That is unless there is something that I am still not realizing/considering. I prefer a less stocked system to allow the occupants more space, so that is not an issue for me as well.

My 50g is sumpless. Running on a Tunze Reefpack 505. Simple, quiet, low power and foolproof. Suits me just fine. My remote sump was high end quality and worked perfect also, just not my cup of tea. I know its not the big thing on this side of the ocean but it is in Europe, where many residence are smaller and sumps are not popular.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Doug

just not my cup of tea.

And that's the thing. It all about what you want. The only prerequisites are a glass box and moving water at the right temp. Everything else is extra designed to make various things easier and/or more convenient.