Vacuuming a sand bed or not That is my question

[Masonjames]

Originally Posted by Kraken

Like all things in the reef, I am not 100% sure that it is the sandbed thats causing the red slime, however it is the best guess I got. Removing it will allow me to rule it out, however I have many customers who have had red slime and removing the sand bed typically rectifies their problem. Personally, I also believe it is just a ticking time bomb as you I can see the crap it carries. I siphoned out maybe 2 cups full of sand and the water that came with it looks pretty murky. As to the contents of the murky water, I do not know as testing it will likely result in ambiguity considering the countless particulates that may be in there.

Another possibility of the red slime may be my dry rock but not as likely so, the only logical thing to do is to remove what is most likely the cause of an issue. I am pretty picky as to what I add in my tank, and other than salt, fish, coral, frag plugs, food, dust, gfo, carbon and cheato, there isnt anything else that im adding into the tank that I am not aware of. I check the tds meter on my RO system as well frequently and it reads 0. Yes. I also double check it with a handheld one as well.

Nobody has the perfect formula in maintaining a flourishing reef which is partly what makes this hobby so appealing. In order to advance in this hobby, we have to take a scientific approach (and by all means im using this word VERY loosely). By this, I mean to try your best and account for all variables and to not leave anything to chance. I have never added any live rock (other than bits and pieces stuck on corals that I later remove) so I know, relatively, what is in my tank. Now im not saying I can account for everything in my tank as that would be impossible considering how diverse a reef aquarium is. So the best tool is to just to try and remove one part of the system at a time until something clicks and solves your problem.

Removing the sandbed may also only temporarily solve my issue, but again, its all just trial and error.

Originally Posted by Kraken

Like all things in the reef, I am not 100% sure that it is the sandbed thats causing the red slime, however it is the best guess I got. Removing it will allow me to rule it out, however I have many customers who have had red slime and removing the sand bed typically rectifies their problem. Personally, I also believe it is just a ticking time bomb as you I can see the crap it carries. I siphoned out maybe 2 cups full of sand and the water that came with it looks pretty murky. As to the contents of the murky water, I do not know as testing it will likely result in ambiguity considering the countless particulates that may be in there.

Another possibility of the red slime may be my dry rock but not as likely so, the only logical thing to do is to remove what is most likely the cause of an issue. I am pretty picky as to what I add in my tank, and other than salt, fish, coral, frag plugs, food, dust, gfo, carbon and cheato, there isnt anything else that im adding into the tank that I am not aware of. I check the tds meter on my RO system as well frequently and it reads 0. Yes. I also double check it with a handheld one as well.

Nobody has the perfect formula in maintaining a flourishing reef which is partly what makes this hobby so appealing. In order to advance in this hobby, we have to take a scientific approach (and by all means im using this word VERY loosely). By this, I mean to try your best and account for all variables and to not leave anything to chance. I have never added any live rock (other than bits and pieces stuck on corals that I later remove) so I know, relatively, what is in my tank. Now im not saying I can account for everything in my tank as that would be impossible considering how diverse a reef aquarium is. So the best tool is to just to try and remove one part of the system at a time until something clicks and solves your problem.

Removing the sandbed may also only temporarily solve my issue, but again, its all just trial and error.

Again, I'm sorry quoted your situation. I assure you my post was not directed at you. It was right there so I used it. But I agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said. My post was not to offend anyone or tell anyone there doing something wrong. My intent was to get people thinking. I myself tried to do not allot more then just ask a bunch of questions. There are many people in this hobby who don't have the experience as you have or this person has and there are always new people coming into the hobby. And I am sure we all can agree that this hobby has just as much bad information available as there is good information available. And I sure don't have all the answers. And I'm sure either do you or the next guy. So my intent of the post was to make anyone who actually has some questions or issues they are struggling with to actually find some real answers. And why those answers are the way the are. There is so much great data and information available to those who invest the time to look, but I guarantee not everyone is going to even know what questions to ask. And I'm sure there are allot who are just asking the wrong questions all together and getting the wrong advice or answers. And I agree that there is no perfect formula but as you mentioned regarding a scientific approach there are basic facts and principles that will apply to everyone. There is so much information available to us if in fact we know what to look for and question as to why those things are the way they are.

In reference to your post now, I have no idea if your sand bed is the culprit or not either and I agree trying to rule that out first seems like a good place to start. But the fact remains the same. You do indeed currently have a nutrient issue or are experiencing a nutrient imbalance. If in fact you can grow and harvest your cheato for export on a regular basis then that alone is fact you have an excess of available phosphates. Which of coarse may not be an issue since the means of export are in place. But the red slime is clearly an indicator that there is something there for it to be taking advantage of. And I agree,
Probably the sand bed. But the dry rock could also be the culprit as you pointed out. That dry rock may indeed be housing bound inorganic phosphates. Hard to say. Was the rock a recent addition before the red slime? Maybe you can try and trouble shoot both and do a somewhat crude test for potential phosphate problems in either. If either is housing some serious inorganic phosphates you can ground up to fine powder a sample of each and add the sample to rodi and test for phosphates ( test each separately lol) when you grind it up you break down any inorganic phosphates into orthophosphates which if present to any significant amount your test kit should pick it??

[jorjef]

You know Bradley!! You started this......

[gregzz4]

Wholly Mackerel
This thread just gets better and better

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and put in my 10 cents

I haven't touched my sandbed for over 6 months and don't plan to do so anytime soon

If your sand gets mucked up, siphon some of it out and be done with it, but keep your removal to the 1/8" level
If it's clean, leave it alone
Why remove all the critters ?

Don't siphon into dsb's past the 1/4" level and risk exposing hydrogen sulphide
Maybe my measurements are a bit off, so do your own research

I'd add more, but I'll bite my tongue

[Aquattro]

The only critters I found were 6 nassarius snails. I think maybe there are fewer critters than we believe in there

[gregzz4]

Goes to show what I know, and what I do for maintenance
Guess I'm outta the norm here as I just read this;

Originally Posted by Myka

I use a gravel vacuum and vacuum all the sand to its full depth on all waterchanges. The sand is only 1/2" deep.

If your sand is more than 1/2" deep and you do not regularly vacuum it you do risk exposing black anaerobic areas and releasing hydrogen sulphide. So if you haven't vacuumed, but you want to, you have to start slowly by only going through the top 1/2" of the sand, and continually going a bit deeper on each waterchange. I've had tanks with up to 6" sand beds that I vacuumed to their full depth, but it was done regularly and no anaerobic areas were allowed to form.

[Kraken]

haha, I think this is a good discussion considering it has always been a big debate about whether they should have a sand bed or not.

Greg, I do not think 6 months is long enough for a sandbed to really "fill up". This is just my oppinion but I had no issues in my sandbed (around 1.5 inchs) for a year and a half. It is only lately that I started having issues.

MJ - The dryrock I used is the same as what has been in the tank when I started. I could take a piece of rock out and some sand, put them both in RO water and test the water to test if there is any level increase. Hmm..might be worth doing =P, and perhaps everyone else who can
participate can do so too and we can pool in our results =D.

[kien]

[gregzz4]

Originally Posted by Kraken

Greg, I do not think 6 months is long enough for a sandbed to really "fill up". This is just my oppinion but I had no issues in my sandbed (around 1.5 inchs) for a year and a half. It is only lately that I started having issues.

What issues have you had ?

[Kraken]

Originally Posted by gregzz4

What issues have you had ?

Red slime

[gregzz4]

I had Cyano issues recently, but I'm currently cured ...