Observations

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

So true and totally agree with

Aquattro

I have been in the hobby for a long time over 20 years with all the new gadgets and toys and hype of all new product.
When you tell some people to keep it simple they look at you as if there is a secret with gold weight that is held back with only the few old reefers

[Dearth]

I value the input many of the experienced reefers have because lets face it they have been there and done that they know what works and what doesn't work and what fixes to potential fatal issues that may kill your tank.
I listen and I learn

But there is also a flip side to the coin with experience many people tend to stay with what they know and there is nothing wrong with that but it can leave the older more experienced reefers/FOWLERs very resistant to change and will argue as to why such and such a thing is a bad idea or why it won't work. New things pop up all the time in the hobby and change can be one of the hardest things to do.

I often find New SW hobbyists are jumping literally blindly into the hobby with little or no clue as to what they are doing and it can be frustrating even for me because they did no research or have no understanding of SW fish/coral basics and then watch as their tank dies for no good reason at all. Unfortunately this is happening a lot these days because it is more affordable now. I spend a lot of my time at the LFS and on some forums convincing people to not get in the hobby unless your serious and dedicated about it. Setting up is the expensive but easy part, maintaining and caring for your tank is the hard part and unless you know what your getting into its not worth spending the money.

This is a very rewarding hobby but it is also a hobby that can literally tear you apart

PS
Forgot about the internet which has made it easier to look up and research stuff but it comes with a huge caveat not everything you read is the truth or even real but in todays fast paced society almost anything put online is taken as factual and few people actually doing the leg work to see if it is true or not

[Reef_Geek]

What a neat thread. This is like the episode of Big Bang Theory where Amy inside the comic book store asks "who's the best comic hero?" to which Stuart says "You can’t ask a question like that in here. Are you trying to start a rumble?"

Well back in my day... there was no such thing as your fancy electricity and we had to do 100% water changes twice daily, carrying buckets uphill both ways! And the fish liked it. And we liked it. And it was good.

Originally Posted by Dearth

1) SW is no longer for those with deep pockets it is becoming more affordable and smaller tanks are becoming more the norm over bigger tanks

2) With the increase in the popularity of the hobby it has brought to the forefront more of conservation of the oceans however on the other hand because the hobby is popular right now there is an increased demand for fish/coral/inverts causing more problems in the wild

3) Technology is better and cheaper and easier to buy now than it once was making the hobby somewhat more affordable

4) tank styles are become more and more varied and often only limited by your imagination

5) On many forums there is a perceived line drawn in the sand with old school reefers who led the way in innovation in modern reefing on one side and new school reefers with new fresh ideas on the other side. This has led to heated debates on all forums about what is better

6) Liverock/dead rock is no longer the only option as there are many man made rock formations out there that is easier to work with and is considerably lighter and the added bonus of no unwanted hitch hikers

Agree/disagree other views or observations welcome

Interesting points. In my opinion, and not for better or worse (just the way it is)--
In reference to prices and costs. I don't think supplies are cheaper with the exception of some regional markets. Example, the prices of the most premium type of light 15 years ago was $400 to $600 a pop (it was MH), and now the most premium type of LED is about that price... just the technology is different. However, for regional markets that enjoyed isolation before online stores, increases in local competitors (other shops, hobbyist traders) have made the market more efficient in those places, making things priced at fair market value. If nothing else, one thing that does concern me (I used to be in the aquarium business) is that market value (prices) have not gone UP as everything else has gone up. Freight, fuel, labor, utilities, rent/property, taxes, inflation--we all see that our living costs are far higher now than 15 years ago, yet most things are about the same prices (ball park)... especially in livestock (labor intensive, inventory risk, shipping). This is an indication that demand (hobby, industry) has not risen at the same pace as average growth of cities/populations/economies proportionately.

About the hobby stressing natural resources... this is a bit fuzzy. Without fresh data in hand, I'll venture a guess that the ornamental collection factor is tiny compared to food fisheries demand and habitat degradation. This does sound like a cop out, but that is not the point. There are countries that manage their fisheries (whether ornamental or food species) far better than others (eg. Florida vs Bali), but is also a function of their authorities' available resources to execute/manage/patrol/penalize. Again... just the way it is. If you care, then do research and only buy from those source countries with strong fisheries management (alternately, captive culture).

About old school vs new school... I don't trust robots... one day they are controlling your fancy lighting and your fancy powerheads... next they're plotting your demise and logging into Canreef to buy a girlfriend when you're not looking. Alls I gots to say is--remember Skynet.

Seriously though--just kidding (the robot wrote this, I am tied up, help.)

Other observations
-for a while, there was a flurry of great books that were published. Sprung & Delbeek, Fossa & Nilsen, Scott Michael, Deloach series, Baensch series, Aqualogs etc etc... with the internet, I don't recall the last time another great book was published. Magazines have also disappeared (well, less prevalent) in hardcopy form.
-At least in Calgary, the online shops and big box stores have squeezed the small independent stores out of the hardware & supplies game.
-online forums such as Canreef have made it efficient for hobbyists to trade frags and know-how. LFS staff are no longer the primary learning centers.

Now I'll go listen to both "the way it is" by Bruce Hornsby and "Changes" by 2Pac

[Reef_Geek]

Originally Posted by Reef_Geek

Interesting points. In my opinion, and not for better or worse (just the way it is)--
In reference to prices and costs. I don't think supplies are cheaper with the exception of some regional markets. Example, the prices of the most premium type of light 15 years ago was $400 to $600 a pop (it was MH), and now the most premium type of LED is about that price... just the technology is different. However, for regional markets that enjoyed isolation before online stores, increases in local competitors (other shops, hobbyist traders) have made the market more efficient in those places, making things priced at fair market value. If nothing else, one thing that does concern me (I used to be in the aquarium business) is that market value (prices) have not gone UP as everything else has gone up. Freight, fuel, labor, utilities, rent/property, taxes, inflation--we all see that our living costs are far higher now than 15 years ago, yet most things are about the same prices (ball park)... especially in livestock (labor intensive, inventory risk, shipping). This is an indication that demand (hobby, industry) has not risen at the same pace as average growth of cities/populations/economies proportionately.

I should clarify... this sounds like a self contradiction.

Things aren't cheaper in terms of face/monetary value.
$20-$30 for a clownfish in 2000 = $20-$30 for a clownfish in 2013
$400 for a top line of light in 2000 = $400 for a top line of light in 2013

in comparison, these have gone up in prices... gas, electricity, property value, postage, wages, entertainment (movie tickets, dinner, Sega Genesis vs xBox prices at launch).


Things are cheaper in the context of time value of money
$25 for a clownfish at 2000 costs of living is a whole lot more than $25 in today's personal finances
$400 in 2000 was a lot of money for an aquarium light for most people, $400 today is not a lot of money for an aquarium light for many people

here's a simple interest calculator for Future Value.
http://www.ultimatecalculators.com/s...alculator.html
Assume a $400 light in 2000, 13 years, 5% growth (say comparable to... a decent mutual fund). That light SHOULD be priced at $660 today, if the demand supports it. But because hobby hasn't grown demand at the same pace as the economy, the current market will not support it. Buying a $400 MH back in 2000 feels like buying a $660 LED today.