TM balling webinar synopsis

[Ron99]

And just to add one thing, some of the trace elements listed in your chart would also be extremely expensive and or controlled materials so they are unlikely to be found in the part c complex.

[Aqua-Digital]

Originally Posted by Ron99

And just to add one thing, some of the trace elements listed in your chart would also be extremely expensive and or controlled materials so they are unlikely to be found in the part c complex.

Hi Ron,
You either believe in the worlds respected author on the subject or not, we cant make anyone not be skeptical, you are basing these arguments on skepticism rather than any facts, we are just highlighting actual facts here.

Put it another way, Hans-werner would not be in the position he is today if half you said was actually true, we have to be realistic to his years of credentials. I could understand being skeptical if this was some new funky product from an unheard of guy but this is coming from the man himself so many have tried to copy since.

I can only suggest you join the next seminar, you can then ask all the questions directly. I really cant say anymore than that.

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

Hi Ron,
You either believe in the worlds respected author on the subject or not, we cant make anyone not be skeptical, you are basing these arguments on skepticism rather than any facts, we are just highlighting actual facts here.

Put it another way, Hans-werner would not be in the position he is today if half you said was actually true, we have to be realistic to his years of credentials. I could understand being skeptical if this was some new funky product from an unheard of guy but this is coming from the man himself so many have tried to copy since.

I can only suggest you join the next seminar, you can then ask all the questions directly. I really cant say anymore than that.

Now you are distracting from the point by simply trying to tout HWB's credentials. Those aren't being questioned. And don't take this as a dig at him but I've seen plenty of products with other well respected people's names on them that delivered less than promised. So simply having a name on it shouldn't be an automatic pass.

Look, I'm not trying to be confrontational but by posting a chart of all the trace elements found in NSW and implying that that is what HWB and TM are providing in this dosing solution is disingenuous. There is no way that he is including elements such as mercury, lead, uranium, gold, platinum, thorium, osmium, hafnium etc.

Also inert gasses such as He, Ar, Ne etc are found in trace amounts in sea water because they dissolve from our atmosphere but have no biological function as well and I doubt you will find those in Part C. Shall I go on?

I have extensive experience in chemistry and biochemistry. I'm not disputing his premise that simple two part dosing may lead to imbalances in important trace elements or in NaCl. What I am saying is that there are several ways to skin a cat and that two or three part dosing along with other brands of trace element solutions that contain those trace elements know to be important to, and used by, corals etc. can accomplish a similar result. That's it.

I guess I just have a problem with the suggestion that only the TM solution will get you to the right end point. I'm sure it works as advertised. That's not being questioned. But other options may work just as well. That's my point.

This hobby tends to be so fad and trend driven with many people chasing the latest thing or product as if it's the holy grail that will give them beautiful successful reef tanks. The implication from all your various posts and threads is that the TM Balling method supplements are the one and only way to accomplish balanced dosing. I'm just suggesting that other options might work too.

That and I'm calling BS on your implication that the TM product contains all of the above from your chart.

[reeferfulton]

Think for me it may boil down to cost. Which I can't seem to find yet.

What I learned last night is that part c is all the ingredients normally found in there own salt buckets, less the salt.
So I am waiting for people to just use standard 2 part bulk. And tropic Marin part c
Isn't that still balanced?
They only question that remains is if you believe that TM part a, b are of better purity then bulk.

That's what I am trying to decide

[Aqua-Digital]

Originally Posted by reeferfulton

Think for me it may boil down to cost. Which I can't seem to find yet.

What I learned last night is that part c is all the ingredients normally found in there own salt buckets, less the salt.
So I am waiting for people to just use standard 2 part bulk. And tropic Marin part c
Isn't that still balanced?
They only question that remains is if you believe that TM part a, b are of better purity then bulk.

That's what I am trying to decide

Cost = $49.99 for a starter set. My starter set in my 120 gallon has lasted 6 months, thus far on light loaded tank but increasing.

[Aqua-Digital]

Originally Posted by reeferfulton

Think for me it may boil down to cost. Which I can't seem to find yet.

What I learned last night is that part c is all the ingredients normally found in there own salt buckets, less the salt.
So I am waiting for people to just use standard 2 part bulk. And tropic Marin part c
Isn't that still balanced?
They only question that remains is if you believe that TM part a, b are of better purity then bulk.

That's what I am trying to decide

Hiya

sorry I did not answer all your excellent parts. they all are very valid.

You are completely right the people doing their own 2 part if they add part C then yes you are balancing the equation and as such doing it right.

You are also 100% correct in the purity factor, TM is as pure as you could get, if this is important to you that you know based on the companies ethics that you are getting the best possible salts then TM offer you the kit in an easy to buy solution.

If purity is not a concern to you then go ahead use any 2 part you like just add the part C to the equation.

However when deciding to save a few dollars on cheap off the shelf salts, remember how much you have spent in live stock over a year, high end equipment to keep that live stock going, do you really want to risk that investment on cheap salts? You maybe saving $50 a year but risking $5000 of investment in stock.

The salts are one of the life bloods to your system, you are happy to spend $$$ on a coral so why not on a product to keep that coral healthy?

Ultimately only you can decide what you feel you should risk and spend your money on, but if you go cheap at least add Part C which for 1kg is only going to cost you around $20 and last months.

[Aqua-Digital]

I will also add, if you are doing a different 3 part right now, either remove the Mg and replace with part C (which container MG in proportion).

This is not all about TM balling being the ONLY way, its about doing Hans-werner ballings method, how you skin that cat is up to you, what other salts you use is up to you, but the important factor to all this IS

PART C

TM offer an off the shelf system with all elements, or they offer an off the shelf separated parts, you choose what you want from there.

But if you are going to dose minerals this way, lets do it right - Balanced

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

I will also add, if you are doing a different 3 part right now, either remove the Mg and replace with part C or reduce your Mg dosing significantly and add Part C to you equation in a different container, however you will likely (if your system is balanced correctly) no longer require the Mg mix.

This is not all about TM balling being the ONLY way, its about doing Hans-werner ballings method, how you skin that cat is up to you, what other salts you use is up to you, but the important factor to all this IS

PART C

TM offer an off the shelf system with all elements, or they offer an off the shelf separated parts, you choose what you want from there.

But if you are going to dose minerals this way, lets do it right - Balanced

That is something that I said in another thread that got closed Getting your own phamacetical grade CaCl and NaHCO3 and adding part 3 should be equal to complete balling But you didn't say anything on that

[Aqua-Digital]

Originally Posted by Ron99

Now you are distracting from the point by simply trying to tout HWB's credentials. Those aren't being questioned. And don't take this as a dig at him but I've seen plenty of products with other well respected people's names on them that delivered less than promised. So simply having a name on it shouldn't be an automatic pass.

Look, I'm not trying to be confrontational but by posting a chart of all the trace elements found in NSW and implying that that is what HWB and TM are providing in this dosing solution is disingenuous. There is no way that he is including elements such as mercury, lead, uranium, gold, platinum, thorium, osmium, hafnium etc.

Also inert gasses such as He, Ar, Ne etc are found in trace amounts in sea water because they dissolve from our atmosphere but have no biological function as well and I doubt you will find those in Part C. Shall I go on?

I have extensive experience in chemistry and biochemistry. I'm not disputing his premise that simple two part dosing may lead to imbalances in important trace elements or in NaCl. What I am saying is that there are several ways to skin a cat and that two or three part dosing along with other brands of trace element solutions that contain those trace elements know to be important to, and used by, corals etc. can accomplish a similar result. That's it.

I guess I just have a problem with the suggestion that only the TM solution will get you to the right end point. I'm sure it works as advertised. That's not being questioned. But other options may work just as well. That's my point.

This hobby tends to be so fad and trend driven with many people chasing the latest thing or product as if it's the holy grail that will give them beautiful successful reef tanks. The implication from all your various posts and threads is that the TM Balling method supplements are the one and only way to accomplish balanced dosing. I'm just suggesting that other options might work too.

That and I'm calling BS on your implication that the TM product contains all of the above from your chart.

UG Ron, read the post, I said this is what is found in NSW not what is found in Part C of course some elements are not there, the ones that either cant be replicated in any sea salt mixture. common sense, please if we are going to have any debate.

As I said before Ron go for it brother fill ya boots show us your DIY system that can do this, when you have produced a part C with everything in it that NSW has minus the NACL and show us the recipe, I think this is a mute point.

If your point is other options may work as well, then yes providing they match what is in part C then you are 100% right.

Nobody has said TM has the exclusive on this, its about doing it right, 3 part is not doing it right where the 3rd part is just MG, thats the whole purpose of this thread.