TM balling webinar synopsis

[Ron99]

I'm pretty sure I can come up with plenty of information on what trace elements are in sea salt and how they are consumed etc. There's no magic there. There are plenty of companies selling trace element supplements of various sorts. Complete or not.

I know you are selling this stuff and it's your job to promote it but let's not pretend there is some special magic in the Tropic Marin system. It's Calcium Chloride, Sodium Bicarbonate and a trace element solution. And honestly, every Ca and Alk supplement on the market are ridiculously overpriced, probably overly dilute and can be replicated easily at home for much less money.

I'm not trying to make this a dig on the Tropic Marin product which is probably good and does the job but you are making it sound like super magical solutions to maintaining our reef chemistry that can't be accomplished with other products and I think there are many ways to accomplish the same thing.

[Aqua-Digital]

But once you have gone to all that effort to try and cobble together all these elements it will cost you probably double what a set of Tropic marin would and then you have to go to all the effort to try and make it work, is it really worth it trying to do it DIY hoping you may save some money which ultimately after all that effort I am pretty confident you would not.

But for sure please post here your DIY recipe and costs it would be a great exercise.

Nobody is pretending its magic, its reef chemistry, nature sets the rules not us, there is no magic here, I think you would find the seminar very informative to be honest if you think this is all marketing magic

[Aqua-Digital]

The basics are when you dose 2 part you are left with sodium chloride as explained above, this imbalances your system. The cure to this is not magic, its basic reef chemistry.

extra sodium chloride is not good, so it needs to be balanced NACL sea salt does this for you. Again wheres the magic here? This is not a marketing made up product, the end result of the product is NSW.

[Aqua-Digital]

For anyone that fancies the gauntlet of making their own I thought I would share this

Of course you dont need the NCL as that's the part you are trying to balance

[mrhasan]

Hows the dosing done Michael? Because to have one sodium ion for every chloride ion, there has to be a ratio of 110.98g of CaCl for every 84.007g of CaHCO (molar masses). Does that satisfy the aprox 10ppm of calcium consumption every 2dkh of alk drop? Because if that amount of grams are not maintained, there will either more be more sodium ions or more chloride ions with an end result of being imbalance.

[Aqua-Digital]

You should have joined the webinar

The system comes with a simple mixing ration you follow per 1 USA gallon, you then dose this by a doser.

Part C must be the same dosing rate as I think its part B, but I will double check this for you.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

You should have joined the webinar

The system comes with a simple mixing ration you follow per 1 USA gallon, you then dose this by a doser.

Part C must be the same dosing rate as I think its part B, but I will double check this for you.

I would have loved to but pulling a 12hrs every day at the university is not an easy work.

Yah that's what I was thinking: it should come with a specific mixing ratio which cannot be changed for the theory to work. And I am guessing the ratio also maintains 2dkh to 10ppm. Right?

[The Codfather]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

You should have joined the webinar

The system comes with a simple mixing ration you follow per 1 USA gallon, you then dose this by a doser.

Part C must be the same dosing rate as I think its part B, but I will double check this for you.

That's what I understood as well Michael, you have to dose C the same rate as B.

[Aqua-Digital]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

Hows the dosing done Michael? Because to have one sodium ion for every chloride ion, there has to be a ratio of 110.98g of CaCl for every 84.007g of CaHCO (molar masses). Does that satisfy the aprox 10ppm of calcium consumption every 2dkh of alk drop? Because if that amount of grams are not maintained, there will either more be more sodium ions or more chloride ions with an end result of being imbalance.

And here is your answer in probably more detail than you could ever wish for Hans-Werner does not hold back

• Sodium chloride has a molar weight of 58.44 g/mol.
• In 2 l of R/O water a max. of 2 mol sodium bicarbonate can be dissolved. After addition of 2 mol sodium bicarbonate and 1 mol calcium chloride 2 mol sodium chloride remain in the aquarium. 2 mol sodium chloride can be balanced with exactly 50 g of sodium chloride free sea salt.
• Formula:
 CaCl2 x 2 H2O + 2 NaHCO3 
CaCO3 + 2 NaCl + CO2 + 3 H2O
• Insert weights:
 147 g CaCl2 x 2 H2O + 168 g NaHCO3  100 g CaCO3 + 117 g NaCl + 44 g CO2 + 54 g H2O
 117 g NaCl + 50 g NaCl free sea salt  167 g complete sea salt



• Adjust tank water to 7° KH and 420 ppm calcium.
• Check alkalinity after two days. Calculate how much alkalinity solution is needed. Add same volume of all three solutions.
• Continue with daily additions of half the volume.
• Adjust added volumes to keep 7° KH alkalinity.

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

For anyone that fancies the gauntlet of making their own I thought I would share this

Of course you dont need the NCL as that's the part you are trying to balance

So are you suggesting part C contains all of the above?!? And if so then that would be exceedingly difficult to do unless mixing it up in extremely large batches as some of those elements really are "trace" elements. Additionally, many are not necessary for the health of our reef inhabitants. So it's not like that chart is a compilation of what is in part c; or any synthetic salt for that matter.

I understand completely what you are saying about balanced dosing and imbalances that may occur depending on how elements are being consumed and then dosed. The point I am trying to make is that, while the TM products may very well be good and an easy solution , I think it's fair to say that the same thing could be accomplished with other dosing regimens and other trace element solutions that contain the elements that are consumed and used by corals etc.

I just think it's a bit of marketing speak to suggest that only Tropic Marin provides a balanced dosing solution and by doing it other ways you are creating or feeding an imbalance. That may be true if someone is only dosing two part or two part plus Mg. But I suspect most dose other trace element complexes as well from numerous other brands and we don't see reef tanks using other products crashing left right and center or going wildly out of balance all over the place.

Sure, the TM products may very well be a good and easy solution but other options exist to do essentially the same thing and they don't involve mixing up your own trace element complexes one element at a time etc.

Just to reiterate, I'm not knocking the TM solution as I'm sure it works as advertised. Just trying to have a balanced view as to what it's accomplishing and how it might compare to other options.