You get what you pay for?! A marketing hype or a reality?

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Madreefer

1. I'm on my 8th skimmer. So yes i've had a little experience with them.
Tank looking and doing so much better by far and reliabilty has been
awesome since skimmer number 7 and 8. Hmmmm...both BubbleKing

I would step away from it. 8th skimmer is a lot

2. Are you suggesting that AI products are low end? I see way more defects
with Radions than anything else. I have not tried them so really I have no
right to comment on them cause i've never tried them just like you.

Well in terms of "you get what you pay for", AI is definitely on the low end. Its perfectly priced (atleast to me). And yes, we all have heard about radions having more defect. There you go...you don't always get what you pay for.

3. I have 5 Vortech pumps and will not be using them on my new build cause
they will not suit my needs.My comment on them is that they are noisy
and I have had reliability issues with them and have had 3 replaced on
warranty. But I do think they are the best powerhead out there with all
the bells and whistles they have. I have traded them off on Tunzes that I
yet to try. So no comment on them.

You have made your choice that you dont want vortech in your new build. Now someone comes forth and say hey don't waste your money on something else...you get what you pay for.....how would you defend? I believe you will say it doesn't suit you...that's it...its not about "how much you are paying for something" but its about "what suits you". If wps suit someone, he/she should use it without getting bashed/having a debate that he/she should spend more.

4. No you dont need expensive lights or reflectors to grow corals. Where you
came up with this I dunno. I ran CoralLife MH fixture for years.

I go through a lot of googling and end up in various sites (r2r, rc, etc.) and there are lots of thread such topics. Like when I was planning to buy odyssea, I could see lots of people (in other forums obviously; by no mean any of my pointers are to this forum only; infact most are to other forums) saying those are crappy fixtures, will burn down houses and are good for FOWLR tanks and things like that.

You proved nothing on LEDs to me. I changed my MH bulbs every 8-10 months and my 4 T5s every 6-8 months. I'm not about to do the math but it's been over 2 years and i'm pretty sure once I wear these LED fixtures out i'll be ahead of the game. I dont have a disco ball effect at all. I've only seen it once on this site with Vegas and several times with DIY setups. As for heat issues in the summer, this has helped tremendously and having that piece of mind knowing my tank is'nt boiling is good for me.
I see it on this site and as well as others. Most of the time the people that like to bash the more expensive pieces of equipment have never really owned them. I don't get it. So back to "Dont Knock It Till You Try It"
Raied i'm not trying to be ignorant i'm just answering your questions for me. By no means are these fighting words.
As someone else already said "if it works for you than great"
No need to be a hater.

You will definitely be ahead in the game because you are using AI which is priced right. If you were using radion or mitras, you wouldn't be saying that Just like people people like to bash expensive stuffs; there are people out there who like to bash non-expensive stuffs thinking they are just pieces made out of crap.

No hating with you at least or any fighting words

I wrote the replies in the quote

[Aquattro]

I've decided that anyone complaining about my moderating in the future is getting "you get what you pay for" as a reply -lol

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I've decided that anyone complaining about my moderating in the future is getting "you get what you pay for" as a reply -lol

Finally something effective came out of this thread.

[Reef Pilot]

Sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't. And sometimes people are hesitant to admit they did not get a good deal or made a mistake. But no shortage of opinions from people who have never even used a product, and just spew what seems to be popular. Myself, I would rather just hear from people with direct experience, and wish the others would just listen and try to learn something.

And then there are those that blame a product, instead of their own ineptness. What works great for one person might bomb for someone else.

What would be far more useful is people giving their experience along with some facts and explanation of how they were using a product (or method). And let everyone else make up their own minds about what they want to do. Plus we could better assess whether the person knows what they are doing or not.

Reminds me of stock trading. Worst thing people can do is run with the herd, or listen to popular opinion. Then when they lose all their money they blame the banks, brokers, corporations, markets, etc, and say the system is crooked. In reality, it was their own greed and laziness (lack of analysis and due diligence) that did them in and they got what they deserved.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't. And sometimes people are hesitant to admit they did not get a good deal or made a mistake. But no shortage of opinions from people who have never even used a product, and just spew what seems to be popular. Myself, I would rather just hear from people with direct experience, and wish the others would just listen and try to learn something.

And then there are those that blame a product, instead of their own ineptness. What works great for one person might bomb for someone else.

What would be far more useful is people giving their experience along with some facts and explanation of how they were using a product (or method). And let everyone else make up their own minds about what they want to do. Plus we could better assess whether the person knows what they are doing or not.

Reminds me of stock trading. Worst thing people can do is run with the herd, or listen to popular opinion. Then when they lose all their money they blame the banks, brokers, corporations, markets, etc, and say the system is crooked. In reality, it was their own greed that did them in and they got what they deserved.

Nicely put and I totally agree Forums are all about sharing experiences. Suppose someone comes forth and ask "I am buying a bubble magus, will it work" and someone posts "that's a piece of crap, buy a bubble king"...how helpful is that?

Yah I am a victim of that myself....I have been through lots of bashing for buying less expensive stuffs. I have heard "if you cant afford a refractometer, this hobby is not for you"...really??!! There's certain things that scares off many people, and "you pay what you get for" is one of them. I believe I have no less of a success in my tank with moderate end products than tanks with high end product. Isn't this hobby about taking it slowly? Not everyone starts with big pocket and certain people don't need to scare them off. In the end, its about the husbandry and not on how expensive the equipment are. You shouldn't buy an ebay HOB skimmer but you certainly don't have to buy a deltec.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

You shouldn't buy an ebay HOB skimmer but you certainly don't have to buy a deltec.

I love my Deltec skimmer. So much so I bought another for my next tank build Used of course

Anthony

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by SeaHorse_Fanatic

I love my Deltec skimmer. So much so I bought another for my next tank build Used of course

Anthony

When is the thread for new tank build going up?

[SanguinesDream]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

There's certain things that scares off many people, and "you pay what you get for" is one of them. Isn't this hobby about taking it slowly? Not everyone starts with big pocket and certain people don't need to scare them off.

This is an exclusive hobby, like having to own an F40 and an F50 before buying an Enzo, you can have a $h!tload of cash, but if you don't have the creds, money is only going to get you so far.

That being said, I think it tends to be a little too exclusive sometimes. There is this inordinate amount of pressure to upgrade when you have the ability. Raied, I remember the pressure on you to install a sump even though you didn't have the real estate.

I've been frowned upon for trying to ship livestock in many differing ways North, only to have more DOAs than successes. "Then maybe you shouldn't have anything but the hardiest of corals" its been said. Really?!?

Mental health is crucial and making a hobby inaccessible due to x,y and z is a form of exclusivity and I think we should try to be a little more accomodating/understanding to those in the hobby who face challenges. My $0.02.

[Slick Fork]

MRHasan: I'm not really sure what you're looking to achieve with this thread? Vindication that you can get by with budget equipment? A resounding chorus from budget reefers saying "Those who pay premium are idiots"?

There's nothing at all saying a cheap maxijet or some Chinese knockoff can't provide good flow. The difference, for me at least, is that when I buy Tunze equipment I'm buying a history of rock solid performance. I won't be worried that my pump will fail at 2am on a Saturday of a long weekend leaving me scrambling and in a panic. It's not the performance when it works that's the deciding factor for me, it's the peace of mind knowing that I bought a quality product that is statistically less likely to cause a catastrophic failure in my tank. Furthermore, if something does occur I've bought a product with warranty service that is second to none. Some people see more value in buying two cheap pumps in case one fails. Both are valid viewpoints and it comes down to where an individual sees the value.

Same with LED's. My AI SOL's work fine for me for now. They grow coral, they have a measure of controllability. That doesn't mean that there is ZERO value in the extra features of higher end fixtures such as better controllability, less disco effect, a better more metal halide-like shimmer, etc.

We get it, you don't have money because you're a student. Honestly, most of us have been there before and can sympathise. Just because some of us see the value in higher end gear doesn't make us idiots for spending more, and to be honest I'm sure most of us don't care if you want to spend less. To each his/her own.