You get what you pay for?! A marketing hype or a reality?

[Madreefer]

Raied everything that your using as examples you've never owned.
Just like your several comments on LED lights. Sure you can have an opinion but it really means nothing without actual experience. Get what you pay for? How bout Dont Knock It Till You Try It
And I love polls, just the biweekly Whats The Best Salt polls get rather boring.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Madreefer

Raied everything that your using as examples you've never owned.
Just like your several comments on LED lights. Sure you can have an opinion but it really means nothing without actual experience. Get what you pay for? How bout Dont Knock It Till You Try It
And I love polls, just the biweekly Whats The Best Salt polls get rather boring.

Lemme ask you some questions:

1. Does a tank need bubble king to succeed or does skimmers like vertex/bubble magus works? I have seen tanks having success with vertex skimmer and also bubble magus skimmer.

2. Do you need expensive LEDs to have success? Do you need radion/mitra to grow/color up successfully? If I am not wrong, you use AI and are happy. Isn't that all it matters? You being happy with your tank and not listening to "you get what you pay for" and running after fixtures like radion/mitra?

3. Do you need vortech to have proper flow in the tank?

4. Do you need expensive lights with expensive reflector to get corals growing?

The points I put forth for LEDs are related to "cost" and that is an independent to owning one. Companies say you save money with LED, I prove you don't. I have never said anything related to growth/coloration which is what depends on true experience. I did talk about disco affect which is something non-debatable.

All I am saying is "you get what you pay for" is not true (to me) for having success in this hobby.

[Madreefer]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

Lemme ask you some questions:

1. Does a tank need bubble king to succeed or does skimmers like vertex/bubble magus works? I have seen tanks having success with vertex skimmer and also bubble magus skimmer.

2. Do you need expensive LEDs to have success? Do you need radion/mitra to grow/color up successfully? If I am not wrong, you use AI and are happy. Isn't that all it matters? You being happy with your tank and not listening to "you get what you pay for" and running after fixtures like radion/mitra?

3. Do you need vortech to have proper flow in the tank?

4. Do you need expensive lights with expensive reflector to get corals growing?

The points I put forth for LEDs are related to "cost" and that is an independent to owning one. Companies say you save money with LED, I prove you don't. I have never said anything related to growth/coloration which is what depends on true experience. I did talk about disco affect which is something non-debatable.

All I am saying is "you get what you pay for" is not true (to me) for having success in this hobby.

1. I'm on my 8th skimmer. So yes i've had a little experience with them.
Tank looking and doing so much better by far and reliabilty has been
awesome since skimmer number 7 and 8. Hmmmm...both BubbleKing

2. Are you suggesting that AI products are low end? I see way more defects
with Radions than anything else. I have not tried them so really I have no
right to comment on them cause i've never tried them just like you.

3. I have 5 Vortech pumps and will not be using them on my new build cause
they will not suit my needs.My comment on them is that they are noisy
and I have had reliability issues with them and have had 3 replaced on
warranty. But I do think they are the best powerhead out there with all
the bells and whistles they have. I have traded them off on Tunzes that I
yet to try. So no comment on them.

4. No you dont need expensive lights or reflectors to grow corals. Where you
came up with this I dunno. I ran CoralLife MH fixture for years.

You proved nothing on LEDs to me. I changed my MH bulbs every 8-10 months and my 4 T5s every 6-8 months. I'm not about to do the math but it's been over 2 years and i'm pretty sure once I wear these LED fixtures out i'll be ahead of the game. I dont have a disco ball effect at all. I've only seen it once on this site with Vegas and several times with DIY setups. As for heat issues in the summer, this has helped tremendously and having that piece of mind knowing my tank is'nt boiling is good for me.
I see it on this site and as well as others. Most of the time the people that like to bash the more expensive pieces of equipment have never really owned them. I don't get it. So back to "Dont Knock It Till You Try It"
Raied i'm not trying to be ignorant i'm just answering your questions for me. By no means are these fighting words.
As someone else already said "if it works for you than great"
No need to be a hater.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Madreefer

1. I'm on my 8th skimmer. So yes i've had a little experience with them.
Tank looking and doing so much better by far and reliabilty has been
awesome since skimmer number 7 and 8. Hmmmm...both BubbleKing

I would step away from it. 8th skimmer is a lot

2. Are you suggesting that AI products are low end? I see way more defects
with Radions than anything else. I have not tried them so really I have no
right to comment on them cause i've never tried them just like you.

Well in terms of "you get what you pay for", AI is definitely on the low end. Its perfectly priced (atleast to me). And yes, we all have heard about radions having more defect. There you go...you don't always get what you pay for.

3. I have 5 Vortech pumps and will not be using them on my new build cause
they will not suit my needs.My comment on them is that they are noisy
and I have had reliability issues with them and have had 3 replaced on
warranty. But I do think they are the best powerhead out there with all
the bells and whistles they have. I have traded them off on Tunzes that I
yet to try. So no comment on them.

You have made your choice that you dont want vortech in your new build. Now someone comes forth and say hey don't waste your money on something else...you get what you pay for.....how would you defend? I believe you will say it doesn't suit you...that's it...its not about "how much you are paying for something" but its about "what suits you". If wps suit someone, he/she should use it without getting bashed/having a debate that he/she should spend more.

4. No you dont need expensive lights or reflectors to grow corals. Where you
came up with this I dunno. I ran CoralLife MH fixture for years.

I go through a lot of googling and end up in various sites (r2r, rc, etc.) and there are lots of thread such topics. Like when I was planning to buy odyssea, I could see lots of people (in other forums obviously; by no mean any of my pointers are to this forum only; infact most are to other forums) saying those are crappy fixtures, will burn down houses and are good for FOWLR tanks and things like that.

You proved nothing on LEDs to me. I changed my MH bulbs every 8-10 months and my 4 T5s every 6-8 months. I'm not about to do the math but it's been over 2 years and i'm pretty sure once I wear these LED fixtures out i'll be ahead of the game. I dont have a disco ball effect at all. I've only seen it once on this site with Vegas and several times with DIY setups. As for heat issues in the summer, this has helped tremendously and having that piece of mind knowing my tank is'nt boiling is good for me.
I see it on this site and as well as others. Most of the time the people that like to bash the more expensive pieces of equipment have never really owned them. I don't get it. So back to "Dont Knock It Till You Try It"
Raied i'm not trying to be ignorant i'm just answering your questions for me. By no means are these fighting words.
As someone else already said "if it works for you than great"
No need to be a hater.

You will definitely be ahead in the game because you are using AI which is priced right. If you were using radion or mitras, you wouldn't be saying that Just like people people like to bash expensive stuffs; there are people out there who like to bash non-expensive stuffs thinking they are just pieces made out of crap.

No hating with you at least or any fighting words

I wrote the replies in the quote

[Aquattro]

I've decided that anyone complaining about my moderating in the future is getting "you get what you pay for" as a reply -lol

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I've decided that anyone complaining about my moderating in the future is getting "you get what you pay for" as a reply -lol

Finally something effective came out of this thread.

[Reef Pilot]

Sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't. And sometimes people are hesitant to admit they did not get a good deal or made a mistake. But no shortage of opinions from people who have never even used a product, and just spew what seems to be popular. Myself, I would rather just hear from people with direct experience, and wish the others would just listen and try to learn something.

And then there are those that blame a product, instead of their own ineptness. What works great for one person might bomb for someone else.

What would be far more useful is people giving their experience along with some facts and explanation of how they were using a product (or method). And let everyone else make up their own minds about what they want to do. Plus we could better assess whether the person knows what they are doing or not.

Reminds me of stock trading. Worst thing people can do is run with the herd, or listen to popular opinion. Then when they lose all their money they blame the banks, brokers, corporations, markets, etc, and say the system is crooked. In reality, it was their own greed and laziness (lack of analysis and due diligence) that did them in and they got what they deserved.

[intarsiabox]

Originally Posted by Madreefer

You proved nothing on LEDs to me. I changed my MH bulbs every 8-10 months and my 4 T5s every 6-8 months. I'm not about to do the math but it's been over 2 years and i'm pretty sure once I wear these LED fixtures out i'll be ahead of the game. I dont have a disco ball effect at all. I've only seen it once on this site with Vegas and several times with DIY setups. As for heat issues in the summer, this has helped tremendously and having that piece of mind knowing my tank is'nt boiling is good for me.
I see it on this site and as well as others. Most of the time the people that like to bash the more expensive pieces of equipment have never really owned them. I don't get it. So back to "Dont Knock It Till You Try It"
Raied i'm not trying to be ignorant i'm just answering your questions for me. By no means are these fighting words.
As someone else already said "if it works for you than great"
No need to be a hater.

I have to agree about this. I have a G2 Radion sitting over my 29g tank, for me to buy a nice ATI T5 fixture with bulbs would be no cheaper (actually more expensive). The first 10 months after owning it I would have saved well over $150 in replacement bulbs and then saved some extra money on energy costs as well. No disco effect with this fixture even on white sand and rocks plus I can make it do what ever I want without it having to cost me $25 just to try a different color to see if I like it. To keep comparing apple to apples I can get a cheap LED fixture again for the same price as a cheap T5 fixture (so LED would still be cheaper within a year), unfortunately some of the cheap T5 fixtures also have a history of catching fire so I will never have them in my house even if the company says they have fixed the problems that went on for years. As a tradesman my tools and equipment are my livelihood and I can assure you that cheap tools are exactly that. I've wasted lots of money on cheap tools when I was starting out and all of them had to be replaced and in the case of precision machine work were just down right unusable. So yeah, in a lot of cases you really do get exactly what you pay for. To keep posting these same threads over and over again pretending to be looking for opinions but then disagree with everyone that posts that has a different opinion and also using it as a guise to run down things you don't and never have owned is getting very tiresome. Please move on.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by intarsiabox

I have to agree about this. I have a G2 Radion sitting over my 29g tank, for me to buy a nice ATI T5 fixture with bulbs would be no cheaper (actually more expensive). The first 10 months after owning it I would have saved well over $150 in replacement bulbs and then saved some extra money on energy costs as well. No disco effect with this fixture even on white sand and rocks plus I can make it do what ever I want without it having to cost me $25 just to try a different color to see if I like it. To keep comparing apple to apples I can get a cheap LED fixture again for the same price as a cheap T5 fixture (so LED would still be cheaper within a year), unfortunately some of the cheap T5 fixtures also have a history of catching fire so I will never have them in my house even if the company says they have fixed the problems that went on for years. As a tradesman my tools and equipment are my livelihood and I can assure you that cheap tools are exactly that. I've wasted lots of money on cheap tools when I was starting out and all of them had to be replaced and in the case of precision machine work were just down right unusable. So yeah, in a lot of cases you really do get exactly what you pay for. To keep posting these same threads over and over again pretending to be looking for opinions but then disagree with everyone that posts that has a different opinion and also using it as a guise to run down things you don't and never have owned is getting very tiresome. Please move on.

1st bold line: I really don't understand what you mean by "same threads over and over again". Mind explaining?

2nd bold line: Did I really disagree with everyone? Although english is not my first language but I think there's a well understood difference between "disagree" and "debate" and I am capable enough to understand the difference.

3rd line: This is a public forum and everyone has the right to start a discussion/debate. There's admins out here. You don't have to the police. You really didn't have to post something like "please move on"...there's nothing to move onto...its just an thread where discussions are going on....there are both sides in this thread (if you would go through through all the posts). If you don't like this thread, you didn't have to comment on it. Nothing personal...cheers!

[Jakegr]

It is a fact that there are some amazing tanks out there that use budget equipment. I think the bottom line is that good husbandry techniques and careful equipment selection are far more important than the amount of money you spend. In my opinion, you can get skimmers that skim equally well to a Bubble King or LED lights that provide equal light quality as a GHL Mitras, for a fraction of the price of those high end items.

At the same time, I think hobbyists that stick to budget equipment should recognize that, while it may be stupid to you to spend $200 extra to get rid of a power cord in your tank, or $500 for a dead silent skimmer, other hobbyists may think it is worth it. It is simply a difference of opinion and is definitely not worth expending energy arguing about.

A few specific comments I have regarding gear in this thread:

- Custom tanks actually aren't much more than standard tanks. It depends a lot on the "options" you select on the custom tank, but you can actually get a basic custom tank for nearly the same price as a standard tank.

- I have seen no difference in my tanks that have used IO, Reef Crystals, Kent, and Deltec salt. I currently use IO.

- I kind of found the Kessil comment odd (that they are good value). I think they are one of the most over priced lights on the market for what they do. This is coming from someone who owns one.

- Vortech's are fantastic quality compared to Hydor Koralias. If you take proper care of your Vortech, it will last for many years. Personally, I think you are lucky if you can get 2 years out of a Koralia, even with regular vinegar baths. It is also really nice to clean a Vortech you do not need to unplug it.

- I completely agree about the LEDs. Cheap LEDs can provide great quality of light, just as good as a high end LED fixture. My biggest problem with cheap LEDs is that they are just ugly. Good for those who have a close canopy, but not good looking over open top tanks.