You get what you pay for?! A marketing hype or a reality?

[intarsiabox]

Originally Posted by Madreefer

You proved nothing on LEDs to me. I changed my MH bulbs every 8-10 months and my 4 T5s every 6-8 months. I'm not about to do the math but it's been over 2 years and i'm pretty sure once I wear these LED fixtures out i'll be ahead of the game. I dont have a disco ball effect at all. I've only seen it once on this site with Vegas and several times with DIY setups. As for heat issues in the summer, this has helped tremendously and having that piece of mind knowing my tank is'nt boiling is good for me.
I see it on this site and as well as others. Most of the time the people that like to bash the more expensive pieces of equipment have never really owned them. I don't get it. So back to "Dont Knock It Till You Try It"
Raied i'm not trying to be ignorant i'm just answering your questions for me. By no means are these fighting words.
As someone else already said "if it works for you than great"
No need to be a hater.

I have to agree about this. I have a G2 Radion sitting over my 29g tank, for me to buy a nice ATI T5 fixture with bulbs would be no cheaper (actually more expensive). The first 10 months after owning it I would have saved well over $150 in replacement bulbs and then saved some extra money on energy costs as well. No disco effect with this fixture even on white sand and rocks plus I can make it do what ever I want without it having to cost me $25 just to try a different color to see if I like it. To keep comparing apple to apples I can get a cheap LED fixture again for the same price as a cheap T5 fixture (so LED would still be cheaper within a year), unfortunately some of the cheap T5 fixtures also have a history of catching fire so I will never have them in my house even if the company says they have fixed the problems that went on for years. As a tradesman my tools and equipment are my livelihood and I can assure you that cheap tools are exactly that. I've wasted lots of money on cheap tools when I was starting out and all of them had to be replaced and in the case of precision machine work were just down right unusable. So yeah, in a lot of cases you really do get exactly what you pay for. To keep posting these same threads over and over again pretending to be looking for opinions but then disagree with everyone that posts that has a different opinion and also using it as a guise to run down things you don't and never have owned is getting very tiresome. Please move on.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by intarsiabox

I have to agree about this. I have a G2 Radion sitting over my 29g tank, for me to buy a nice ATI T5 fixture with bulbs would be no cheaper (actually more expensive). The first 10 months after owning it I would have saved well over $150 in replacement bulbs and then saved some extra money on energy costs as well. No disco effect with this fixture even on white sand and rocks plus I can make it do what ever I want without it having to cost me $25 just to try a different color to see if I like it. To keep comparing apple to apples I can get a cheap LED fixture again for the same price as a cheap T5 fixture (so LED would still be cheaper within a year), unfortunately some of the cheap T5 fixtures also have a history of catching fire so I will never have them in my house even if the company says they have fixed the problems that went on for years. As a tradesman my tools and equipment are my livelihood and I can assure you that cheap tools are exactly that. I've wasted lots of money on cheap tools when I was starting out and all of them had to be replaced and in the case of precision machine work were just down right unusable. So yeah, in a lot of cases you really do get exactly what you pay for. To keep posting these same threads over and over again pretending to be looking for opinions but then disagree with everyone that posts that has a different opinion and also using it as a guise to run down things you don't and never have owned is getting very tiresome. Please move on.

1st bold line: I really don't understand what you mean by "same threads over and over again". Mind explaining?

2nd bold line: Did I really disagree with everyone? Although english is not my first language but I think there's a well understood difference between "disagree" and "debate" and I am capable enough to understand the difference.

3rd line: This is a public forum and everyone has the right to start a discussion/debate. There's admins out here. You don't have to the police. You really didn't have to post something like "please move on"...there's nothing to move onto...its just an thread where discussions are going on....there are both sides in this thread (if you would go through through all the posts). If you don't like this thread, you didn't have to comment on it. Nothing personal...cheers!

[Jakegr]

It is a fact that there are some amazing tanks out there that use budget equipment. I think the bottom line is that good husbandry techniques and careful equipment selection are far more important than the amount of money you spend. In my opinion, you can get skimmers that skim equally well to a Bubble King or LED lights that provide equal light quality as a GHL Mitras, for a fraction of the price of those high end items.

At the same time, I think hobbyists that stick to budget equipment should recognize that, while it may be stupid to you to spend $200 extra to get rid of a power cord in your tank, or $500 for a dead silent skimmer, other hobbyists may think it is worth it. It is simply a difference of opinion and is definitely not worth expending energy arguing about.

A few specific comments I have regarding gear in this thread:

- Custom tanks actually aren't much more than standard tanks. It depends a lot on the "options" you select on the custom tank, but you can actually get a basic custom tank for nearly the same price as a standard tank.

- I have seen no difference in my tanks that have used IO, Reef Crystals, Kent, and Deltec salt. I currently use IO.

- I kind of found the Kessil comment odd (that they are good value). I think they are one of the most over priced lights on the market for what they do. This is coming from someone who owns one.

- Vortech's are fantastic quality compared to Hydor Koralias. If you take proper care of your Vortech, it will last for many years. Personally, I think you are lucky if you can get 2 years out of a Koralia, even with regular vinegar baths. It is also really nice to clean a Vortech you do not need to unplug it.

- I completely agree about the LEDs. Cheap LEDs can provide great quality of light, just as good as a high end LED fixture. My biggest problem with cheap LEDs is that they are just ugly. Good for those who have a close canopy, but not good looking over open top tanks.

[intarsiabox]

Originally Posted by Jakegr

- Custom tanks actually aren't much more than standard tanks. It depends a lot on the "options" you select on the custom tank, but you can actually get a basic custom tank for nearly the same price as a standard tank.

Yep, I had a 75g starphire 3 sides, frameless with external overflow built for the same price as a standard "reef ready" 75g tank at the local stores. My dimension were a bit different though as I went with a 3' x 2' foot print instead of the standard 48" x 18". It also pays to check around as I had other quotes that were much higher.

[intarsiabox]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

The points I put forth for LEDs are related to "cost" and that is an independent to owning one. Companies say you save money with LED, I prove you don't. I have never said anything related to growth/coloration which is what depends on true experience. I did talk about disco affect which is something non-debatable.

" Although english is not my first language but I think there's a well understood difference between "disagree" and "debate" and I am capable enough to understand the difference."

I guess I am just misinterpreting your comments then.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by intarsiabox

" Although english is not my first language but I think there's a well understood difference between "disagree" and "debate" and I am capable enough to understand the difference."

I guess I am just misinterpreting your comments then.

The lines you made bold are from a completely different thread where I showed that "expensive" LEDs cost benefit is extremely low. That's a completely different thread; Bill just pointed it out since I am well known to trigger such conclusions . And its about disproving the advertisement by those companies; I also pointed out good sides of LEDs in that thread too but I wouldn't buy the main line that all those companies put forth for LED; atleast not for the next 2/3 years. Its math

And about the disco; its not debatable because its either there or its not there for certain fixture....you cannot say you can't have a disco affect from a razor fixture.

Sorry for misinterpreting your comment. Those two points were from a thread few months ago so I just brought it up in context. My apology

[intarsiabox]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

The lines you made bold are from a completely different thread where I showed that "expensive" LEDs cost benefit is extremely low. That's a completely different thread; Bill just pointed it out since I am well known to trigger such conclusions . And its about disproving the advertisement by those companies; I also pointed out good sides of LEDs in that thread too but I wouldn't buy the main line that all those companies put forth for LED; atleast not for the next 2/3 years. Its math

And about the disco; its not debatable because its either there or its not there for certain fixture....you cannot say you can't have a disco affect from a razor fixture.

Sorry for misinterpreting your comment. Those two points were from a thread few months ago so I just brought it up in context. My apology

Well I'm also grouchy today because I spent the day in freezing cold sump pit replacing pumps and then had to come home to 1 1/2 hours of shovelling snow. Now I have to proof read another of my wife's reports for her university degree which I know absolutely nothing about the subject (or care to) but have a knack for grammar and making her wording flow better and make more sense. I can actually write better than I do on Canreef.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by intarsiabox

Well I'm also grouchy today because I spent the day in freezing cold sump pit replacing pumps and then had to come home to 1 1/2 hours of shovelling snow. Now I have to proof read another of my wife's reports for her university degree which I know absolutely nothing about the subject (or care to) but have a knack for grammar and making her wording flow better and make more sense. I can actually write better than I do on Canreef.

Best of luck reviewing the report

I am still at the university staring at thousands of data in excel and trying to make fancy diagrams using illustrator....its just one of those days :P

Really sorry for escalating your mood with this thread.