Ok, let's hear it!

[waynemah]

I was able to grow huge colonies from frags with LED. But when you want the coverage and brightness, you need to spend big $$$. This is where the line was drawn for me.

Maybe LED's have too many options and not enough testing. You can easily tune yourself out of an acceptable range for your corals. I would invest in an LED again if there were limited presets with static height/coverage requirements. Don't over sell/rate your product and give the customer an educated recipe for optimal coral color and growth.

[Aqua-Digital]

Originally Posted by waynemah

I would invest in an LED again if there were limited presets with static height/coverage requirements. Don't over sell/rate your product and give the customer an educated recipe for optimal coral color and growth.

This is something that GHL have thought about doing. A cut down unit with known workable presets, bit like using different preset T5 tubes.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by jorjef

Yes the subject is very appropriate and I like reading about others experiences and opinions but its someones relentless push to have everyone conform to their way of thinking and opinion that has me a wee bit bent. I have LED and think they're fine.

I am pretty sure that no one is "relentlessly pushing". It has been mentioned a lot of time in this thread that in the end, its personal choice. From my perspective, I haven't complained anywhere in this thread about "growth" or "color". Infact, I didn't start commenting till Michael came forth with the "cost" issue. That's where I start. THE COST. I have also said LEDs has lots of bells and whistles that comes down to personal preference. I don't have problem with that. I don't have problem with growth/color because I have never used LED to judge those two parameters. But when someone comes down to tell me, "hey get a $1000 LED for the tank and you gonna save lot of electricity and money", that's where I have problem. Color/growth: these are upto Nick, Denny and Brad to comment on, they moved away from LED after using it. I hope that clears things up. Its all about proof. Electricity and cost are just numbers and nothing related to experience. BCHydro/Enmax won't come over to check whether you are using LEDs and charge you accordingly

Originally Posted by Aquattro

For me, I moved to LED to reduce moisture in the house, which it did very well. And they also kept about 95% of the color for over the year I used them. Pretty impressed with that. They also have dimming capabilities, which is pretty cool. Another plus! But, I would rather have 100% of the color, which T5 is giving me. T5 is also an unfamiliar technology to me, I've never used them. But so far I'm impressed. My chiller comes on as much with them as it did with LED. The light looks nicer, the corals look nicer. I do not have dimming. I have to change bulbs. Both are negligible at my point in the hobby. I do not for a second believe any other brand or model of LED would have been different. They just don't provide what I'm looking for. I may even start liking my T5 better than MH. I know, right??

To Michael: LEDs doesn't necessarily eliminate chiller like I have mentioned earlier with proof. And there you go I didn't make that up

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

You know, I really don't understand this whole ditching LEDs discussion. As I mentioned earlier, I used to have T5s before I went to Radions, and can't imagine going back. No question, they are a lot cooler and cost less energy, incl less chiller running. And yet some here have argued otherwise!!! Don't know what they are smoking...

As for the looks, yes, T5s are nice, but I can adjust my LED colours to anything I want, and by time of day. I can make SPS glow, if I want...

I run mine on the Natural Mode which simulates the sun through the day, and my corals seem to really like it. SPS keeps growing like crazy and getting good colour out of everything. I tried playing with different colours, but I honestly don't like the "artificial" look. And I have seen some tanks like that, and each to their own, I guess.

IMO, I think a lot of non-LED users here are being very much misled. Maybe some LEDs are not as good, and maybe some people don't know how to use theirs properly with all the different settings and adjustments.

But my Radions (both Gen 1s and Gen 2s) have all worked flawlessly from day 1, and I couldn't be happier with them.

Since I am the only non-LED user over here, I would like to be pointed out where I mislead. Cost-benefit? Electricity savings? Well, that's the two part I talked about. There's obviously a cut-off region for those two to get inverted from their typical outcome (the numbers of years for cost-benefit would significantly decrease and electricity savings will be huge) but those are for HUGE tank sizes. Like a 8' or a 10' tank.

To Michael (again :P): I would love to get some numbers from you. Can you please give me the electricity consumption of your system (with LED and without chiller) for a month? Another number, that I am also hoping to get from you or you can collect it from someone with a similar system with a similar location, is the electricity consumption with T5/MH/both. I don't need the Watt (that's gonna be higher for MH anyways) but I need the KWh consumption for a month. This will not only help me (to prove me wrong or right) but will possibly be a good for you. Will really appreciate if you can give me those two numbers Kill-a-watt meters are fine

[jorjef]

No not you Mr. H.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

Electricity savings?

This is another selling point. But again, for me, I don't give a damn about electricity costs. I run a giant box of water in my livingroom, that is an expensive undertaking If it costs 20 or 200/month, I don't care. I want the best SPS I can grow.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I run a giant box of water in my livingroom, that is an expensive undertaking

[Aquattro]

Michael, sorry missed the part where you said "there are more than a few posting they are ditching LED because they do not believe they can grow corals or produce colour"

I agree this is crap. LED grow coral just fine, and produce beautiful colors. Anyone ditching because of that is perhaps doing other things wrong.

I'm ditching because I can get slightly better color from other technologies. Not that LED didn't do the job, just didn't do it well enough for my personal tastes and my tank. As I said, for many tanks, LED may be the best solution!

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

This is another selling point. But again, for me, I don't give a damn about electricity costs. I run a giant box of water in my livingroom, that is an expensive undertaking If it costs 20 or 200/month, I don't care. I want the best SPS I can grow.

That's a very practical answer. We put in corals worth thousands of $ and then we fight over who got to save couple 10s by investing $1000+. Gotta put an LED manufacturer in Dragon's Den Electricity is cheap! Go to Europe, its a completely different stories, they need electricity savings since its about 3 to 5 times higher than that of Canada.

If Michael gives me the numbers, that's gonna tell the true story of how much "savings" one is actually having.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

If Michael gives me the numbers, that's gonna tell the true story of how much "savings" one is actually having.

Problem is, numbers will be different for each tank. It depends on unit, number of units, power profile, dimming settings, etc. While running lights in full might be cheaper, having the sunset, sunrise and moonlights going might offset that savings. But again, who cares??

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Problem is, numbers will be different for each tank. It depends on unit, number of units, power profile, dimming settings, etc. While running lights in full might be cheaper, having the sunset, sunrise and moonlights going might offset that savings. But again, who cares??

Yah. Hence I asked Michael since might be able to help using similar setups: one with halide, one with LED. No parameters, no nothing: I am not bothered about how the corals will grow and color. I just need the consumption.

Well, I don't care as well but it bothers me when saving is factored in and when I try to point out why that's not justified, I get the flames