Ok, let's hear it!

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

Only people I see ditching LED are those that opted for cheap units that don't have the technology to replicate T5 or MH.
]

pay more attn to the forums. It people like myself with radion and mitras and hydras that are switching to t5 or halides.

Myself ran the led train for two years and ime color and growth are no where near led.

So please tell me how a $1200 mitras pays off compared to a $400 halide. Fact is halides are "proven". Fact is that led has been taking off with yet more advance on the way. One day I believe that they will be at par with t5 or halides but not just yet.
I think also the producers are also seeing this. If not the power module probably would have not Ben released
The trend that I am seeing is distributors backing what they sell and the most expensive ones at that. It hard for you as a distributor to support a item that you know longer carry.

[Aqua-Digital]

$999 to be precise

The mitras has been shown many times to equal both the power and the growth of a MH, furthermore you have infinite adjustments to the spectra without having to change a bulb, (as you do of course with other full spectrum LED`s Like Radion another fine fixture)you also have the ability to properly dim the fixture with the built in (only available on Mitras) Linear dimming technology, no thats not the same as digital dimming.

Then of course there is the electrical power saving.

As for tanks under mitras

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...wpost&t=101801

The Mitras was specifically designed to take on MH and T5 in one fixture, this is what you pay for.

But I dont want this to be Mitras Vs all of a sudden, as Aquattro said there will be fans in both camps, all i will say is if you are going to take the leap into LED then spend the money and it will pay you back, try and do it on the cheap, I do not see that it will.

[Proteus]

Before I jump back into led I think I'll wait a year or two to see what advancements come. I'm sure the manufacturer still hold some tricks up their sleeves

[Aqua-Digital]

My only thought to that is, with this sort of technology there will always be advances, it comes down to when you or the next person feels most comfortable taking that leap.

My original point can be summed up as thus, and a short version of my post on RC. If you did not get what you hoped out of LED, this does not mean all LED`s will fail you, the most likely reason is the technology that was not employed into the fixture that you invested in, so my point is, spend as much as you can and you will more than likely get what you hoped for.

There is no argument to be made for saying higher priced fixtures are just profiteering, look through the forums, where do you see most the success stories? There is no market left in this industry for overpriced non worthy items, manufacturers now have to sell at bare minimums to even bring their product to market. So if it is more expensive you can be sure it is due to the cost of manufacturing that fixture.

My closing statement is - Don't put all LED's in the same basket if the one you tried failed you, invest in the ones that have the proven technology to deliver.

[Proteus]

There is no market left in this industry for overpriced non worthy items, manufacturers now have to sell at bare minimums to even bring their product to market.

Gettin deep in here

I would guess that mitras and radion pros are both built for less than $300

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Gettin deep in here

I would guess that mitras and radion pros are both built for less than $300

Definitely. Big names have a HUGE profit margin. They justify that through customer service, warranty, R&D, packaging and marketing. If Radion was to be marketed through places like...alibaba....it's cost would have come down by around 50% Marketing is a big thing and cost for big names. Michael will be able to comment on that

[Aqua-Digital]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

Definitely. Big names have a HUGE profit margin. They justify that through customer service, warranty, R&D, packaging and marketing. If Radion was to be marketed through places like...alibaba....it's cost would have come down by around 50% Marketing is a big thing and cost for big names. Michael will be able to comment on that

Yep i will with complete openness, my GROSS profit for a Mitras right now is $63 and thats gross not taking into account the above mentioned cost of marketing, etc etc. Dealer margins for LED is typically 30-40% ( dealers have high overheads, shop rents mouths to feed, this is an industry expected % for dry goods) for a dealer to sell a Mitras sadly their margin is far less than that and why we help them by drop shipping most so they do not have to cut into their own profits.

My last shipment cost me more the Euro has gone up by 200 base points in 3 weeks.

Now thats 100% openness

GHL took 2 years to develop the Mitras with a leading lighting lab, look at the build quality, look at the fans all UL certified. These things come at a price, i can assure you the Mitras taking into account all tooling and cost of labour comes in above $300, the power supply alone is $45 cost price!

[reefwars]

Crap I guess My cheap low end radion pros at 915$ times two was the cause I shoulda went high end?

I went back to t5 as well after a long battle with coral long term health switch to t5 was instant results that's hard to ignore Considering the time I spent and the money on different generations

Sps wise I was at my end and constant tweaking of.my system wasn't getting answers

Since the switch back to t5 all is well again ......

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

$999 to be precise

The mitras has been shown many times to equal both the power and the growth of a MH, furthermore you have infinite adjustments to the spectra without having to change a bulb, (as you do of course with other full spectrum LED`s Like Radion another fine fixture)you also have the ability to properly dim the fixture with the built in (only available on Mitras) Linear dimming technology, no thats not the same as digital dimming.

Then of course there is the electrical power saving.

As for tanks under mitras

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...wpost&t=101801

The Mitras was specifically designed to take on MH and T5 in one fixture, this is what you pay for.

But I dont want this to be Mitras Vs all of a sudden, as Aquattro said there will be fans in both camps, all i will say is if you are going to take the leap into LED then spend the money and it will pay you back, try and do it on the cheap, I do not see that it will.

Lets not get to the power saving and cost benefit returns. Steve did his calculation with electricity savings and I did the cost benefit returns a lot of time over here so I will start pasting them to prove that particular line is just a false advertisement (to some degree) Wondering why? With halides, your heater runs less; with LED, your heater runs more and the total consumption gets quite close to each other Steve did the calculation few months back in a similar thread And about bulb replacement and electricity savings and the initial investment....it would take almost 5 years or more depending on the high end fixture to get even with MH/T5HO. Raise your hands who has been using the same "commercial" fixture for even the last 2/3 years atleast! DIY fixtures are a whole new horizon and I won't get there.

About "cheap" fixtures. Like Nick already mentioned, people with all forms of LEDs are moving away, be it AI, be it Radion, be it mitra. Infact, I have seen more happy faces using evergrow LEDs than a radion pro. Come on their power factor for the power supply is around 0.6! That's the crapiest AC-DC converter; even a 10 year old with basic knowledge of capacitor and inductor would be able to pull out a AC-DC converter close to 1!

And about mitras. I won't say anything I love the ability of that fixture; GHL knows how to utilize LED on reefs - that's for sure. But I hate the packaging. Fishes don't wear sunglasses! Get realistic...maybe that's holding me back from getting it? Oh wait...its the $1000 price tag = almost 7 years of my bulb replacement. Damn!

[Aqua-Digital]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

With halides, your heater runs less; with LED, your heater runs more

Ok sorry this makes no sense, MH pump out stacks of heat to the degree you need a chiller or cooling fans, with LED the heat is minimal and they have built in fans. I dont have either on my tank. If I had MH I would need one or the other.

Originally Posted by mrhasan

And about mitras. I won't say anything I love the ability of that fixture; GHL knows how to utilize LED on reefs - that's for sure. But I hate the packaging. Fishes don't wear sunglasses! Get realistic...maybe that's holding me back from getting it? Oh wait...its the $1000 price tag = almost 7 years of my bulb replacement. Damn!

we all know the sunglasses are just a gimmick bit of fun i dont see how that has any relevance The packaging has also no reflection on the units ability to perform. So you are saying your purchasing choices are made based on a glossy box. Great news the GHL now has a glossy box

In regards to the price, its the technology you are buying, its up to the consumer if they wish to take that leap to the next level.

Dont take my reply the wrong way, just having a bit of light hearted banter with you on a Sunday evening.