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#1
09-22-2013, 04:51 PM
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I do not doubt you have been culturing phytoplankton for a long time with good results. So have I. You obviously have a solid practical knowledge about how to do it, but based on your explanations you do not understand the physiology. If I'm wrong, just answer this simple question: As you said, from a physiological standpoint, why do you think microalgae need a prolonged dark period to "breath oxygen"? That just doesn't make sense. Plant cells produce oxygen during photosynthesis by splitting water. Outside of the chloroplast, cellular respiration is occurring and uses up some of that oxygen (although there is a net production of O2 if light intensity is high enough). This is a major advantage of having a chloroplast - it provides oxygen to the rest of the cell. So why would they need a dark period to "breath oxygen" if they actually are able to obtain plenty of oxygen internally when illuminated? We are not talking about multi-cellular plants here, which have many reasons to need a dark periods. Microalgae can be seen as the most basic photosynthetic unit and there is no physiological reason microalgae need a dark period. It is not "unhealthy" - I'm actually not sure what you mean by that, as it is a pretty vague statement. What process is being disrupted by illuminating with 24/7 light? Again, I'm not saying you should switch methods as your method works for you. But I do feel if incorrect information is being spread, which is a problem in our hobby, that it should be corrected. I do not think global warming has anything to do with our conversation. 
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#2
09-22-2013, 08:29 PM
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Jakegr I am not taking my information basing just on one book, you keep saying illumination should be 24/7, I don't understand on which time you get the dark time then! You don't explained the intensity of the illumination either...I understand all the reading, I just highlighter the point that you didn't mentioned where clear said "Effects of excessively low and high light suppy" Algal bloom, as I said read those pages plus Plankton Culture Manual and the last part of Aquaculture on Phytoplankton from wikipedia were it said "Light must be provided for the growth of phytoplankton. The colour temperature of illumination should be approximately 6,500 K, but values from 4,000 K to upwards of 20,000 K have been used successfully. ¡The duration of light exposure should be approximately 16 hours daily; this is the most efficient artificial day length!!"
I am sorry I put breath oxygene instead of consuming oxygene, I just see that know, I am going to fix it "Algae produce oxygen during the daylight hours and then consume it at night. During the day algae use energy from the sun to drive a chemical reaction between carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O) to produce sugar and oxygen (O2). The second respiration process in plants is called dark phase respiration. It occurs primarily during the night and, to a much lesser extent, during daylight hours. During the dark phase process the plant consumes sugar and oxygen to produce energy, carbon dioxide, and water. The critical point is that at night, aquatic plants shut down the oxygen- producing photosynthetic reaction and initiate a process where they consume oxygen. I feel 24/7 is unhealthy because we try to provided for our aquarium a live food that have to be proper culture to give the right nutrition. My goal is to describe the technical aspects of culturing phytoplankton, I am try to have a simple description that should be comprehensible to those with minimal experience in aquaculture, how you can see I am not just have a succes experience with one type of algae, but to 6 and I am not just try to make points but also to promote more species and the proper care. If you feel the information what I provided have been incorrect, then you are free to contact Marine Biologyst in Chile and Argentina to correct them, also you can contct Florida Aquar Farms, Inc to they stop sell the Plankton Culture Manual, you can also leave a disagreed feedback on wikipedia on phytoplakton Aquaculture information. Just analized how the phyto works in the ocean.
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90 gallon reef tank
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#3
09-22-2013, 09:10 PM
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Donkey77 I year and a half ago in the city where I live, Edmonton, just 2 stores would provided phytoplankton one species "nannochloropsis" I have the pleasure to see mamero works he not just culture Nannochloropsis, he also culture other species, rotifers, brine shrimp and pods. He don't used the coca cola bottle system, he use a container and when you look at it you can see his deditation in the culture. This guy is a genius, beside any time I being on his home I saw how he take time to explained and listen to the people, I walked more then a time with extra free stuff and I do have wild corals that seems to love his phyto. The bad things in pages like this one is that every one can post copy texts and try to make points destroying the work of others. I will take any opinion or words from Mou as I used and see his live food culture system.
Jake I will like to know which specie or especies of phyto do you culture, I also will like to know if you have another type of life food culture. I will also like if you can post pictures of your system. I think actions talks more then words, I don't think any one in this Country have import and done the job that Mou did, when we try to help out comunity we don't need just talk we also action, I didn't see any store in the Country that provided many species of algaes as Mou that is why I keep saying he is a genius! He informed himself on how to proper care of the live stock and come up with something that not ones have in an entire country, now I don't think so he brought something and he wouldn't know how to take care of it.
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#4
09-22-2013, 10:31 PM
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I have honestly tried to keep my prior experience out of this so that mameroo and I could debate on equal ground. It isn't fair to say "well I'm far more experienced, therefore I am right". I want to explain to people why 24/7 lighting is optimal for growth at non-damaging light intensities. If you want to know my credentials, send me a PM. It is irrelevant to this conversation. I will post a picture of my set up on Tuesday, no problem with that (no pictures at home). I have cultured Isochrysis, Schizochytrium, Tetraselmis, cyanobacteria (spirulina), Dunaliella and Chaetoceros. Right now I focus on Pavlova, Chlorella (fw) and Haematococcus (fw) as they are "hot species" in microalgae biotechnology right now. I think I have almost all of them going right now too just to keep stock cultures in case I need them.
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#5
09-22-2013, 11:20 PM
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I will love if you could provided me some of your cultures, I will like to test the nutritions of your source and mameroo, maybe if I saw you providing live phytoplankton a year and a half ago I will have a different ideology of your suggestion. At this point I support the person who have been making my live stock happy who is Mou.
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#7
09-22-2013, 11:45 PM
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#8
09-22-2013, 10:13 PM
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1) The dark reactions are a misleading term that really is not used much anymore, although many scientists still say it out of habit. It leads people like you to believe these reactions can only occur in the dark, when that is not true. These reactions occur only while the light-dependent reactions are producing ATP, since ATP is required to fix carbon. They are more accurately called the "Calvin-Benson Cycle" or "Light independent reactions". There are examples of carbon fixation only occurring at night, but they are in multi-cellular plants often called "CAM Plants" (this is a mechanism is prevent water loss in hot terrestrial environments). 2) Inside a dense algae culture, there is a "photic zone" (light) and a "non-photic zone" (no light). Algae cultures are constantly being circulated, usually using an air pump. This transports microalgae cells between these two zones. Since the light-dependent reactions occur on a nearly instantaneous timescale, the rate limiting part of photosynthesis are the light-independent reactions/ Calvin cycle. All photosystems in a microalgae cell can become saturated instantaneously at high enough light intensities, meaning there are not enough electron carriers to process any more incident photons. These electron carriers are re-generated during the Calvin cycle. This is the physiological reason why the Calvin cycle limits photosynthetic productivity. 3) Therefore, if the goal is to maximize growth rates, ideally the algae culture will be circulated such that each cell spends milliseconds in the non-photic parts of the culture and nanoseconds in the photic zone. This ensures a constant supply of electron acceptors to process incoming photons. So, finally, to answer your question: the dark time occurs when the algae cells are in the non-photic parts of the culture. If you want to maximize productivity, this dark time should not be hours, it should be milliseconds. This is achieved by transporting the cells in and out of the photic zone really quickly via circulating the culture with air bubbles, NOT by turning the lights off for several hours. 4) If you do turn the lights off for several hours, you are only regenerating the electron carriers ONCE! Once the lights are off, those electron carriers are no longer needed for photosynthesis, and will not be useful until the lights are turned back on again. Once the lights are off, the algae cell will no longer be producing sugars from photosynthesis. Instead, it will consume them via cellular respiration in order to keep the cell alive. This is obviously not a productive time for the algae culture. It does not keep the culture "healthy". Quote:
Excessive light intensity can cause damage to the cell. This is due to a couple of reasons. 1) the photosystems cannot process more than a certain number of photons due to a limited supply of electron carriers. 2) Excess energy can form reactive oxygen species, which cause all sorts of damage. It should be stated that cells are capable of adapting to a variety of intensities in time. Extending the photoperiod under excessive light intensity will cause more harm than good. I am not saying you should illuminate the cultures with excessive light intensity. That doesn't make sense. I am saying to maximize productivity, cultures should be illuminated at a non-damaging light intensity 24/7. I have not read this book you are referring to. For my everyday reference, I use "Handbook of microalgae culture" as well as "Algal Culturing Techniques". I would want to read the full passage you are referring to before commenting. You have severely misunderstood another reference you have cited, so I am honestly highly sceptical of your interpretation of this book as well. The concept of 24/7 light for algae cultures is not a debated topic in the field of microalgae biotechnology, so I honestly have no idea why the authors would say that, and I assume there is more to the story. The fact that they refer to "color temperature" shows me this is not a highly scientific publication to begin with. In this science, wavelength and spectrum are referred to, not "color temperature". Quote:
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"Dark phase respiration" - Are these your words or the authors? It seems to be some combination of "Dark reactions" and "Cellular respiration" which are completely different processes. The dark reactions occur during daylight! They cannot occur at night. Cellular respiration occurs all the time. Plants consume oxygen all the time, but fortunately they produce more than they use while illuminated. At night, they only consume it. It sounds like you are referring to cellular respiration in your description, so remember this occurs all the time (not just at night). Quote:
I too have cultured many different species of micro algae, but that doesn't teach you about their physiology. It teaches you how to inoculate cultures, aerate them, light them, and keep them going, and if you are observant, a bit about their life cycle. It does not teach you that, for example, they have a limited supply of electron carriers, nor when the Calvin cycle reactions occur. There are a few practical reasons to light algae at 16/8, as Myka has said. It consumes less electricity and it prevents high pH's if you do not aerate with CO2 to keep it down. But there are no physiological reasons for it.
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#9
09-22-2013, 10:24 PM
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Jake The problem of all your scientific reasearch is that we are not talking about how to culture phyto in a coca cola bottle, we are talking about culture phyto in a container with the light build inside, as the guy who ask for help said mameroo kit! That is why I think Mou talked about algae bloom and the risk of high temperatures. The only thing I see on you is that you just want to get approval from every thing, if you didn't have culture many species of phyto all your information to me is just a repeating book. As every one have the right to make opinion I guess I would not toletared to you try to destoyef the job of some else when you never done it yourself!
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