Converting a durso to Bean Animal

asylumdown · #1 09-03-2013, 10:06 PM

This tank started out with a Herbie. Made the fatal error of not realizing that you can't plumb two herbie overflows together in to a single outlet. The instability it created in the return chamber of my sump was wreaking havoc on my ATO, and was generally awful to deal with so I converted to a durso. Still not in love with the idea of a Herbie on a tank with dual overflows because of their potential to mess with the water level in the return chamber and having to tune two of them. The way I understand the BeanAnimal overflow, the water level in your return chamber will be constant so long as there is water coming down the trickle pipe.

Also, I'm thinking that for the bean animal when I need to divert water flow, I'll be able to simply close off the full siphon down pipe and only divert the trickle pipe. The trickle pipe will become a temporary durso.

nerdz · #2 09-04-2013, 05:03 AM

Interesting....

Not sure if you already mentioned it but will the tank be empty when you do the conversion?

Do you have any pictures of the configuration of piping to the sump?

Would it be possible to drill the top backside of the tank for a couple of bulkheads?

the piping could definitely be smaller for the full siphon... 1" does around 1500 l believe.

you would likely run into noise issues with the trickle pipes going around 90 degree elbows. they are normally silent because of small layer of water is stuck to the wall with the center of the pipe airspace, this would probably become turbulent at the elbow...

asylumdown · #3 09-04-2013, 06:04 AM

hmmm, the tank would not be empty while doing this, just the overflow boxes. I emptied them to convert from a herbie to a durso and the inhabitants didn't seem to mind with just the flow from the Vortech's.

Unfortunately it will not be possible to drill the glass, the tank is built in to a wall (two sided), so the tank is exactly as wide as it can be, there's no leeway or access on either end.

Here's the pics from when the plumbing was being built, they're not complete, but you get the idea:

South end - before the union and gate valve was installed

North end - before the union and gate valve was installed

Whole cabinet, before the union and gate valve was installed

the union and gate valve. It's designed so that when that lever is to the right, water flows in to the skimmer chamber and does a big U through the whole sump, when the lever is turned to the left, water exits directly in to the bubble trap right before the return chamber, bypassing 3 of 4 of the sump chambers. This wreaked HAVOC with the herbies, having them plumbed together like that just isn't possible if you want a stable system. If I had the trickle drain be on the right, and the full siphon drain on the left, the water in the trickle drain wouldn't need to make a 90 degree turn, but the full siphon would (though I doubt that would affect anything)

nerdz · #4 09-05-2013, 05:26 AM

Thanks for posting info/pics. Sorry, I've been short on time.

Is one of your overflows drilled holes a straight shot to the desireed sump chamber? If, so maybe that could be your trickle line? Just worried it might get loud with a multi-directional path.

Could you run a full siphon,(throttled with gates), in each overflow? Then you would have 50/50 surface skimming. The 3rd remaining hole closed to sump chamber could be trickle line that converts to full siphon in an emergency. 4th and final hole would be slightly higher emergency standpipe.

Im no tank wizard and have never delt with tank and flow rates as big as yours...

Have tried posting on bean animal thread on RC? a lot of experience there especially with larger set ups

FishyFishy! · #5 09-05-2013, 01:44 PM

Hey Adam,

So in each overflow, do you have two holes drilled? Or three?

If you only have two holes per overflow, a bean animal no matter how modified, will not work with your current setup.

Skimmerking · #6 09-05-2013, 01:55 PM

in the first pic where the TEE is couldnt you, bring that pipe lower from the cabinet then have that TEE turned around like a actual Durso. and then have it carry on to the sump area. or have both pipes connect into a larger TEE. i hope this make sense.

Seriak · #7 09-05-2013, 02:16 PM

I would have the full siphon with an emergency on one end and a trickle with an emergency on the other. Not sure why this wouldn't work. For my trickle I essentially made it a durso for quiet operation.

You would not be able to tie the full siphon into the trickle, but when you needed to divert the water you could open the full siphon all the way so the trickle was no longer in use and then divert the full siphon where you need it to go. However, I am not sure if it would be a full siphon at that point unless your diverted pipe was also under water at the destination point. Can't quite picture this one in my head yet.

FishyFishy! · #8 09-05-2013, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seriak

I would have the full siphon with an emergency on one end and a trickle with an emergency on the other. Not sure why this wouldn't work. For my trickle I essentially made it a durso for quiet operation.

You would not be able to tie the full siphon into the trickle, but when you needed to divert the water you could open the full siphon all the way so the trickle was no longer in use and then divert the full siphon where you need it to go. However, I am not sure if it would be a full siphon at that point unless your diverted pipe was also under water at the destination point. Can't quite picture this one in my head yet.

I think that the flow in the 'trickle' overflow would be so minimal that it would create a dead zone. It would be nothing but a nirate factory over time. Mind you, there are ways around that I guess (keeping the water moving/circulating), but they are more of a PITA than anything else.

The most probable scenario here would be to make two durso's with seperate drain plumbing. Same could go for Herbies, it would just be a little harder to fine tune. Get rid of the 2-into-1 valve there, and just make two different drain pipes into the sump.

Seriak · #9 09-05-2013, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishyFishy!

I think that the flow in the 'trickle' overflow would be so minimal that it would create a dead zone. It would be nothing but a nirate factory over time. Mind you, there are ways around that I guess (keeping the water moving/circulating), but they are more of a PITA than anything else.

The most probable scenario here would be to make two durso's with seperate drain plumbing. Same could go for Herbies, it would just be a little harder to fine tune. Get rid of the 2-into-1 valve there, and just make two different drain pipes into the sump.

That's an interesting thought. I thought all Bean Animals had a trickle overflow (Mine does) Has there been any reports on RC on nitrate buildup based on this? How would nitrates build up in the pipe? Mine has a constant, but very minimal flow going down the trickle pipe.

I still think you could do it my way.

nerdz · #10 09-06-2013, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishyFishy!

I think that the flow in the 'trickle' overflow would be so minimal that it would create a dead zone. It would be nothing but a nirate factory over time. Mind you, there are ways around that I guess (keeping the water moving/circulating), but they are more of a PITA than anything else.

The most probable scenario here would be to make two durso's with seperate drain plumbing. Same could go for Herbies, it would just be a little harder to fine tune. Get rid of the 2-into-1 valve there, and just make two different drain pipes into the sump.

If you made each overflow have a full siphon there would be no detritus buildup and full surface skimming. they could have strainers and be at bottom of overflow, (no stand pipe). there would be good water turnover and any detritus would end up in the sump/skimmer.

if the return pump ever failed you would only need enough volume in the sump to handle the volume of the overflows