Ich aftermath... what to do now?

[Madreefer]

Originally Posted by fishytime

actually its the other way around....the medicinal ingredient in garlic is allicin....the compound breaks down very quickly reducing the effectiveness....if you want the medicinal qualities, fresh garlic is the best way....garlic extracts are more of an appetite stimulant....it smells good....
http://www.ehow.com/about_5262161_an...in-garlic.html

Oh I didn't know that. My bad. I just call it garlic extract. I've used the Kent Garlic Extreme for years and it has worked great for my fish. The ingredients say 99% Allium sativum extract (garlic juice)
So are you saying that by using this it is not working for Ick and just a food stimulant?

[daplatapus]

I find threads like this very interesting. First of all, let me emphasize that I am a huge proponent of QT'ing. I do it with all of my fish. After months of reading about ich and the best way to treat fish in QT for it, I choose the tank transfer method. I tried some of the others (Hypo, copper etc.) but killed fish doing it so they weren't for me.
But I completely understand the inability for some to be able to do it, either because of space constraints, time or whatever else people have reasons for not doing it. Plus I also completely understand the unwillingness to empty a display tank for 3-4 months. But here is a truth: If you look back at all the fish that people have talked about on here that have died, I bet you'd see more have died in QT than from ich. If someone does not have a standing QT protocol and a system to deal with sick fish, then I would also recommend garlic and trying to boost immune function rather than try a QT set up that they've never done before. But I would also encourage them to research proper QT'ing and if at all possible implement it in the future. Yes, I know ich would still be in the tank, but there are far worse illnesses out there for fish than ich. Marine velvet to name one.
Anyways, not that anyone asked for it, but that's my $0.02

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by daplatapus

Anyways, not that anyone asked for it, but that's my $0.02

Sorry 0.02 doesn't exists any more. Maybe its your 0.05?

Funny how ich always gets so many debates :P I consider ich as simple cold. Drink lots of water, honey and rest Same for fish, lots of food with garlic and clean water...simple as that

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

Funny how ich always gets so many debates :P I consider ich as simple cold. Drink lots of water, honey and rest Same for fish, lots of food with garlic and clean water...simple as that

Unfortunately, it is comments like these that often mislead newbies into taking the easy route and not QT'ing new fish properly. You can compare it to a cold if you like, but I'm quite certain that more fish have died in home aquariums due to ich (and velvet), than for any other reason.

Read this, and then tell me that healthy fish can't be killed by Ich.
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marine...ths-facts.html

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Unfortunately, it is comments like these that often mislead newbies into taking the easy route and not QT'ing new fish properly. You can compare it to a cold if you like, but I'm quite certain that more fish have died in home aquariums due to ich (and velvet), than for any other reason.

Read this, and then tell me that healthy fish can't be killed by Ich.
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marine...ths-facts.html

Ofcourse ich an velvet are responsible for maximum death because they are very common in the hobby and people always look for cure after things have gone terribly wrong. There are many great tank owners who don't QT and there are many extremely poor tanks whose's owners QT. At the end, it depends on the individual and nothing beat's good husbandry. And if good husbandry is "the easy route", then so be it. I have fought ich myself and I did nothing but feed and feed and feed and I am yet to see any ich in my tank.

I strongly believe that in the end, nothing beats good husbandry And fish's immune system. And I do believe that "comment's like these" part was a bit harsh since there are some experienced hobbyist who did agree to my previous post

Honestly, nothing is "wrong" or "right" in this hobby other than few basic rules (like keeping marine fishes in saltwater ). It all comes down to individuals. Some have success with hypo and copper while others don't....did they do it wrong? Maybe, maybe not....but I would say its all part of the nature's game.

And healthy fish can't get ich.....healthy fish, when stressed, can get ich

I just don't get it; how can a sick fish which is stressed already is further stressed by catching it, putting it in a small tank and doing things like jumbling between tanks, making it live in a hyposaline water or passing strong medicine like copper through its gill can help. Sure a surgery can be performed with no anesthesia but how would it feel? Maybe I am over-pessimist and rely overly on good husbandry.....

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

I just don't get it; how can a sick fish which is stressed already is further stressed by catching it, putting it in a small tank and doing things like jumbling between tanks, making it live in a hyposaline water or passing strong medicine like copper through its gill can help. Sure a surgery can be performed with no anesthesia but how would it feel? Maybe I am over-pessimist and rely overly on good husbandry.....

That's why I advocate quarantine as prevention with a standby QT already cycled and ready to accept fish. I agree that transferring fish already infected to a hastily set up QT has a good chance of failing.

You should read this article, too. It further explains how hypo reduces stress in fish and is a good proactive routine with new fish.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/6/fish

[asylumdown]

At this stage, it looks like the fish in your QT have developed a certain amount immunity to the parasite, which is why you're no longer seeing any active pustules. Acquired immunity has been demonstrated in a bunch of fish in the literature, but the parasite is definitely still in your system.

If you have no plans of going through the extremely intensive and time consuming process of taking the remaining fish out and treating them in QT while fallowing your tank for 10-12 weeks, your best bet for re-stocking is to not buy any fish that are known to be highly susceptible to ich, as it's in your system. IE, don't buy any more tangs.

[daniella3d]

You don't get it? well that's because it is not the right way to do things. It is not when the fish are full of ich and on their way out that it is a good time to treat, it is when they arrive and relatively healthy. That's why quarantine is so important, so that one can treat sick fish either as prevention or at least on time.

Of course if the fish are dying and breathing already so fast and still suffocating, catching them might finish them off...but if they are at that point they will probably die anyway.

Fish are strong, very strong. Imagine the traveling in small bags that they have to do? Problem is that ich is attacking their gills and they suffocate. That's what kill the fish, not being handled, not being cought, not being transfered between tanks.

The second killer of fish in quarantine is bad water quality and ammonia. Those are very easily handled with products like Amquel.

Originally Posted by mrhasan

I just don't get it; how can a sick fish which is stressed already is further stressed by catching it, putting it in a small tank and doing things like jumbling between tanks, making it live in a hyposaline water or passing strong medicine like copper through its gill can help. Sure a surgery can be performed with no anesthesia but how would it feel? Maybe I am over-pessimist and rely overly on good husbandry.....

[mrhasan]

I am not taking about pre-ich QT over there but about post-ich QT; just thought about clearing it up

Yah I do have problem understanding many school of thoughts in this hobby Well if one wants to post QT the fishes and leave it fallow for more than 2 months; its their tank and they are more than welcome to do it. I did a lot (and I mean A LOT!) of studies when my tank had ich and guess what worked: let them just heal by providing them with proper care. And why is there so many school of thoughts, even with just one disease like ich? Because different things worked for different people and everyone just thinks their method is right. QTing worked for some so they promote that while old school method worked for me and hence I promote it.

Originally Posted by daniella3d

You don't get it? well that's because it is not the right way to do things. It is not when the fish are full of ich and on their way out that it is a good time to treat, it is when they arrive and relatively healthy. That's why quarantine is so important, so that one can treat sick fish either as prevention or at least on time.

Of course if the fish are dying and breathing already so fast and still suffocating, catching them might finish them off...but if they are at that point they will probably die anyway.

Fish are strong, very strong. Imagine the traveling in small bags that they have to do? Problem is that ich is attacking their gills and they suffocate. That's what kill the fish, not being handled, not being cought, not being transfered between tanks.

The second killer of fish in quarantine is bad water quality and ammonia. Those are very easily handled with products like Amquel.

[daniella3d]

+1

What people don't realize is that there is often different strenght of ich and some strain might be mild while other are very strong and active and will multiply like crazy and overcome any fish, stressed or not.

It's the same thing with bacterias. You can have some vibrios bacterias in an aquarium and it wont affect anything but given the right conditions those bacterias could go wild and cause brown jelly on many corals.

Ich is one of the major fish killer. I think it kills more fish than any other disease put together, velvet included. It's just too common and people often don't do a thing about it and let their fish die.

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Unfortunately, it is comments like these that often mislead newbies into taking the easy route and not QT'ing new fish properly. You can compare it to a cold if you like, but I'm quite certain that more fish have died in home aquariums due to ich (and velvet), than for any other reason.

Read this, and then tell me that healthy fish can't be killed by Ich.
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marine...ths-facts.html