The biggest threat to our hobby

[beefORchicken]

agreed +1

[Proteus]

Done. Thanks for the link

[Delphinus]

Only 46 from the public? Man I even put a comment in. I'm thinking that figure is not updated.

No, I think you're right though. It's not like this sort of thing hasn't come up before, but everytime something like this comes up, it gets a little closer to sticking. I think the will come that the hobby will be changed. It might not be today, or next year .. but eventually having corals in a captive reef in a home may become something that only exists in past tense.

Hoping that common sense and reason will eventually prevail, but .... well, like I said, I put my comments in already. We'll see where things go.

[Delphinus]

Well at least it's not actually only 46 comments. The webpage shows 481 but when you do start looking at them there are 530 comments. Good, at least we are seeing some numbers.

[Jakegr]

I completely support the opinion that a potential ban on aquacultured species is ridiculous, but I do have some concerns with MASNA's stance. Specifically the "they should to be listed as "species of concern" and studied". This is just not possible.

I posted under the ReefBuilders article saying as much. The vast majority of fisheries have to make due with insufficient data and analysis. It is unreasonable to wait for those species to be thoroughly studied, in my opinion, because it will just never happen. There are not enough resources (people and money) to do the work. In my opinion, that stance is not one that is based on the reality of commercial fisheries.

[naesco]

It is a mistake to say that the problems are created by the environment and to blame others.

The fish/coral industry is a problem and a serious one because they ignore the problem.
There are many examples including importing fish and coral that has no reasonable chance of success.

We should not be bringing in any wild fish or coral where aquacultured are available. The mining of live rock must also stop.

If we ignore the problem we will be left with trading brown frags amongst eachother.

If the species on the list are deemed threatened we as hobbyists should be the first to fully support the legislation!!

[asylumdown]

Originally Posted by naesco

It is a mistake to say that the problems are created by the environment and to blame others.

The fish/coral industry is a problem and a serious one because they ignore the problem.
There are many examples including importing fish and coral that has no reasonable chance of success.

We should not be bringing in any wild fish or coral where aquacultured are available. The mining of live rock must also stop.

If we ignore the problem we will be left with trading brown frags amongst eachother.

If the species on the list are deemed threatened we as hobbyists should be the first to fully support the legislation!!

The problem is that there is next to nothing actually known about the population status of most of the corals on the list. They don't actually know if they're threatened or not, they're guessing. The other problem is that they're saying they're threatened because climate change is destroying reefs. Well, everything that lives on a reef is threatened because of climate change, why are they limiting it to these 83 species? They only plan to list them as threatened, they have no plan to further study, or actively engage in their conservation in any way. A legal designation as threatened without a plan to do something about it is useless and punitive. Also, climate change has nothing to do with the aquarium hobby, whether we grow and trade maricultured specimens or not, the reefs are going to continue to bleach. There are further issues with the fact that they've listed species from all the major aquarium genuses (geni?); I'd pay you 100 bucks if you could find me a US customs agent who could (or would bother to take the time) to differentiate two different species of acropora, many of whom can only be ID'd by examining their naked skeletons under a microscope. This legislation would halt the US trade in all acropora, all montipora, and all euphyllia, to name a few.

The point of this is for the Center for Biological Diversity to make some statement about global warming. It has nothing to do with the conservation of truly threatened coral species.

[saltcreep]

Originally Posted by asylumdown

Also, climate change has nothing to do with the aquarium hobby, whether we grow and trade maricultured specimens or not, the reefs are going to continue to bleach.

The two issues are not mutually exclusive. This industry still has an impact on the environment, albeit a much smaller one. The idea is that the reef will have more of a chance for survival if a no take approach is used.

I'd pay you 100 bucks if you could find me a US customs agent who could (or would bother to take the time) to differentiate two different species of acropora, many of whom can only be ID'd by examining their naked skeletons under a microscope.

You may be surprised at the level of knowledge of USFW officers at LAX. I'd take you up on that bet. There are a couple of them that can make identifications while corals are still in the bags.

The point of this is for the Center for Biological Diversity to make some statement about global warming. It has nothing to do with the conservation of truly threatened coral species.

Agree 100%. It's all politics and nothing more.

[Delphinus]

Originally Posted by naesco

If the species on the list are deemed threatened we as hobbyists should be the first to fully support the legislation!!

In general I would agree. In the case of this proposed legislation, perhaps not. There is no distinction being made as to wild-collected, versus aquacultured or mariculture.

Thus your statement here, for example:

We should not be bringing in any wild fish or coral where aquacultured are available.

... wouldn't even matter anymore if aquacultured or not .. it is simply a blacklisted species. A 1" frag of a coral that's been in a tank for the last 10 years is treated the same as a freshly collected wild colony. As hobbyists we know there is a difference, but if the legislation makes no effort to distinguish them then even aquacultured and captive propagation efforts are effectively shut down.

[asylumdown]

Not to mention that there is no such thing as maricultured or captive bred without sometimes decades of trial and error with wild caught specimens.

I've been reading the Centre for Biodiversity's website for the last little bit. By and large I agree with what they're trying to do, but they keep attempting to use the US Endangered Species Act as a way of 'protecting' marine species (most of which live thousands of miles from US waters) from global warming. That's not science, that's a political tool. Legislation can't protect an animal from an environment that is on a trajectory away from what it's adapted to, and listing something endangered due to climate change is not going to stop climate change.

They're petitioning to have True Percula clownfish added to the ESA, and since there are no true percula clownfish in the US (or anywhere that any US regulatory/conservation authority has any jurisdiction to do anything), the only thing that would do would make owning and breeding your tank raised clownfish illegal.

It's like trying to play piano with a sledgehammer.