How to keep an empty tank alive?

[zum14]

Originally Posted by monocus

add your rubble now so the bacteria have a place to live.are you going bare bottom or sand?a nitrate reactor will give a place for bacteria to live as well-very easy and cheap to build

Sorry I should of clarified. The tank has a sand bottom and there is already just over 100lbs of dry rock in the tank already.

Originally Posted by Myka

Don't use ammonia, that's a FW method. All you need in SW is some live rock/rubble.

Just use the rubble as suggested above. Add your dry rock now too. That will give the bacteria time to seed the dry rock. Or instead of getting rubble just go buy some live rock. Let the rock and/or rubble and the dry rock sit in the tank until you're ready. That would be great. You could "feed" the tank a couple times a months with a small amount of flake (or w.h.y.) food if you want.

Really? Huh. See I figured that you would want your bacteria base before adding life so they don't go through any spikes. I think I understand what your writing. Instead of building a large bacteria base now, adding life then maintaining said life your saying Add life now and slowly introduce food to grow the bacteria. Ok so if that's indeed what you are meaning then what's a small amount? I would imagine it would need to be a little progressive as well? I'm good with doing it this route and going slow but I also don't want to think everything is good and then add a fish and see something spike. The last tank was full live rock so that's easy but I've decided to go a slower less "crabby" route with dry rock and seed it with rubble where things have a harder time hiding. It's just hard to know what will maintain all the good stuff while the tank is empty and getting comfy.

[zum14]

Any other suggestions? Thanks to the help so far.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by zum14

Really? Huh. See I figured that you would want your bacteria base before adding life so they don't go through any spikes. I think I understand what your writing. Instead of building a large bacteria base now, adding life then maintaining said life your saying Add life now and slowly introduce food to grow the bacteria. Ok so if that's indeed what you are meaning then what's a small amount? I would imagine it would need to be a little progressive as well? I'm good with doing it this route and going slow but I also don't want to think everything is good and then add a fish and see something spike. The last tank was full live rock so that's easy but I've decided to go a slower less "crabby" route with dry rock and seed it with rubble where things have a harder time hiding. It's just hard to know what will maintain all the good stuff while the tank is empty and getting comfy.

All the nitrifying bacteria you need will come in on and in the live rock. It will spread onto the dry rock along with critters and algae such as coralline. It takes quite a while for dry rock to become as biologically effective as live rock. Nitrifying bacteria is easy and quick to establish, it is the denitrifying (anaerobic) bacteria that take time. That bacteria is what processes nitrate to (mainly) nitrogen gas. This can make a big difference when trying to control nitrate build up in your tank, but many people put too large a bioload in the aquarium for the rock to process all the nitrate so those people need to come up with other means like biopellets, macroalgae filters, etc.

A small amount of food to sustain the system would be, say, a 1cm square piece of flake food or a few pellets or a piece brine or mysis shrimp. If you add too much you will end up with more nitrate than the rock can deal with, so you really don't want to add very much. Using ammonia to cycle would amount to adding a large amount of food and you would end up with a large amount of resulting nitrate you would have to deal with.

Since you have a lot of time that could be spent cycling and "cooking" the live rock, you could purchase 100% live rock and give it a 20-30 minute 1:4 vinegar bath. This will make all hitchhiking critters abandon ship quite quickly in the bath, but won't be strong enough or long enough to do much harm to the nitrifying bacteria, or more importantly, the denitrifying bacteria. Just another approach to consider (I'm not a fan of dry rock haha).

Another thought, if your system is showing any nitrate or phosphate it would be wise to keep the lights off. If there are nutrients in the water and nothing to eat algae you will end up with a nice "lawn" of hair algae or other nuisance algae.

[zum14]

Originally Posted by Myka

All the nitrifying bacteria you need will come in on and in the live rock. It will spread onto the dry rock along with critters and algae such as coralline. It takes quite a while for dry rock to become as biologically effective as live rock. Nitrifying bacteria is easy and quick to establish, it is the denitrifying (anaerobic) bacteria that take time. That bacteria is what processes nitrate to (mainly) nitrogen gas. This can make a big difference when trying to control nitrate build up in your tank, but many people put too large a bioload in the aquarium for the rock to process all the nitrate so those people need to come up with other means like biopellets, macroalgae filters, etc.

A small amount of food to sustain the system would be, say, a 1cm square piece of flake food or a few pellets or a piece brine or mysis shrimp. If you add too much you will end up with more nitrate than the rock can deal with, so you really don't want to add very much. Using ammonia to cycle would amount to adding a large amount of food and you would end up with a large amount of resulting nitrate you would have to deal with.

Since you have a lot of time that could be spent cycling and "cooking" the live rock, you could purchase 100% live rock and give it a 20-30 minute 1:4 vinegar bath. This will make all hitchhiking critters abandon ship quite quickly in the bath, but won't be strong enough or long enough to do much harm to the nitrifying bacteria, or more importantly, the denitrifying bacteria. Just another approach to consider (I'm not a fan of dry rock haha).

Another thought, if your system is showing any nitrate or phosphate it would be wise to keep the lights off. If there are nutrients in the water and nothing to eat algae you will end up with a nice "lawn" of hair algae or other nuisance algae.

Makes total sense. I am in no hurry and I don't mean like 2 weeks. I got lots of time. I tried dry rock this go so I would have 1. All the time to rockscape I wanted and 2. It's about 1/3 of the price to buy up here. 3. i got time. We have to factor shipping as used stuff intown doesn't come up much and well thats pretty much our only option. I'll prob bite the bullet and pay the $70 shipping to get a few pieces from jl to seed the dry rock and do as you suggest and slowly feed the tank till everything establishes. I'll keep an eye on my parameters to see if I'm feeding alright. I'll take my time stocking. I'm still not too sure what I'm getting. Lights are off as I'm still deciding on an eb4 or eb8 for my lights. Thanks very much for the help. It's kind of an odd ball one cause who wants to keep a tank full of water empty?

[Madreefer]

Did you not have a pretty successful tank last time? I thought you took it down last time due to problems with your house. Seems like your doing alot of over thinking and worrying about nothing really.
George is talking about moving and will be taking his tank down. You'll be able to get some live rock from him. If not I know of another guy in town that'll be getting rid of some pieces as well.

[zum14]

Originally Posted by Madreefer

Did you not have a pretty successful tank last time? I thought you took it down last time due to problems with your house. Seems like your doing alot of over thinking and worrying about nothing really.
George is talking about moving and will be taking his tank down. You'll be able to get some live rock from him. If not I know of another guy in town that'll be getting rid of some pieces as well.

Thanks but I don't know if I'd call it successful. This one has given me some pretty good challenges as well. I probably am over thinking but I'm kinda bad for that. I kinda figured George would be selling complete and not piecing out? Meh we will see what happens. The last tank was shut down for some other reasons. The system I had running in my basement was the house killer. I'm really trying to take things slow on this build and do things right. If I have to wait 2 weeks for a valve then I wait. This is a new and difficult subject for me. Hoping it pays off.