Reef_Geek's tanks

[albert_dao]

That was a wordy way of saying "other people don't give a f__k, why should I?"

[Reef_Geek]

I don't understand how you interpreted I don't give a f__k.

I'm trying to say that the state of it is very different from what we believe. We would be wise to learn more about what and where we support and be smarter consumers. You cannot ignore that we're challenging wild populations, and hobbyists are the demand that drives this. If we choose to stay in the hobby, then we must be aware of our impact. It's not a "let's quit the hobby" issue... it's a "being an aware consumer" issue.

[albert_dao]

Of course you don't, and that's more or less the problem being enunciated here.

In any case, carry on

[Reef_Geek]

I'm sorry that you are getting that impression. You are wrong.

Here's some eye openers from my article in Freshwater and Marine Aquarium Magazine (FAMA):
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2j...jRieDNlcnQyU2M

The point is... the hobby can be a sustainable wild fishery so long as wild captures are properly monitored, enforced, and managed. Within the article, you will read about MPAs (Marine Protected Areas) that serve to protect small regions of the whole area, and also provides recruitment to the surrounding areas. Outside the article, hobbyists would be wise to be aware of what and where they support. There are nations that have poor records of fisheries management, and there are nations that have achieved sustainable fisheries.

-Two divers used to be able to harvest 1000 Mandarins in 3 hours, now two divers typically catch about 30 in 3 hours.
-Average size of mandarins caught is 3 cm (down from 6 cm), this is near sexual maturity
-118,000 Banggai cardinals are exported per month, but this is after an 85% mortality rate post-catch
-Arraial do Cabo (Brazil) used to land 600 Condylactis per week, now they are locally extinct
-Cebu (Philippines) have protected and unprotected areas. Differences between fished and unfished Sebae anemones (Heteractis) is density (1 per 200 square yards vs 1 per 40 square yards) and size (16-32 square inches vs 64-80 square inches)
-same comparison above for clownfishes... density (1 per 10 square yards vs 1 per 200 square yards) and size (6 cm vs 2.5 cm length)

[Reef_Geek]

Maybe I haven't articulated the corporate social responsibility part well enough? I'm trying to convey that while a company does not have to be engaged in extended social-community programs or hold such values (as we see many examples of this around us), I am by no means advocating this. I've worked for 7 different employers, 3 of whom are fortune 500 companies. The most successful have been those with proper corporate social responsibility mandates.

[Reef_Geek]

I don't expect to get everyone's alignment, nor do I claim to be a saint. If I can leave you with one practical one-liner--

As much as you can, support shipments out of Hawaii and Florida because US fisheries are (largely) properly managed. Yes, landed costs are typically higher, that's why LFS still source from Indonesia and Philippines.

[albert_dao]

What does this have to do with four tangs doggy paddling in a crowded 67 gallon tank? This entire tirade has been a big straw man stuffed with equal parts false dichotomy and call to authority. Like, literally, the entire schlong of arguments are non-relevant, but in the most verbose manner possible. It's almost... museum worthy in its grandiose self-importance.

I mean, hey, if you're gonna do it, do it and have the cajones to say "you know what? You guys can go take your self righteousness and shove it." But standing from the pulpit and delivering this oratory? Too funny.

<3

[Reef_Geek]

Didn't realize you're still stuck back at the stocking density thing. You weren't very specific as to what I "don't give a f__k about."

Yeah, if you're talking about the stocking density, I still don't feel I'm over stocking. I've spawned 69 species of marine fishes in captivity so I know what works and what doesn't.

If you're talking about people talking about compassion for fish without understanding that hobbyists are driving an uncompassionate fishery, that I care a great deal about.

[albert_dao]

Must.... resist.. urge.. to ... troll....

[Reef_Geek]

whatever. I don't even know what that means.