peoples thoughts and opinions on calgary lfs???

[reefwars]

i would love one of the sponsors or store owners on this site to pls reply and give us your take on customers, running a store and what your goals are.

we are all talking about this from a custoer point of view i would like to see what a business has to say about the comments made and their take on things in this business.

[Enigma]

Originally Posted by Reef_Geek

2) Dusty merchandise that hasn't been wiped for months
.

I'm pretty sure you're referencing the place where I had to stop at a gas station to wash my hands on the way home after leaving the place. I had handled a few items on the shelves, and my hands were filthy when I left! I did ask if they had a sink I could use to wash my hands before I left. "No. Sorry we don't." I haven't been back.

[jorjef]

How long have these shops been in business? I'm guessing quite some time and are set in their ways and still in business. Not saying their systems are perfect but it's the way they want things. I feel your pain about being forced to shop at these places.... Regina has ONE store which I and many people in the city won't buy from unless absolutely necessary, be thankful you have 5 or what ever the count is at.

I made an hour and a half detour to hit a Bayside in Saskatoon on the way home this weekend. Tanks were marked with prices.. Picked up a nice Yellow Candy Hogfish

I admit not having tanks marked with prices is annoying but take it as an opportunity to turn the tables on the shop owner... Low ball an offer on a fish or coral and get the haggling started

[Reef_Geek]

Originally Posted by reefwars

just looking at all the replies and attention this thread is getting tells me we are hurting for a change in business in this city from our lfs , we all know it.

red coral was off to a great start , ive always had nothing but great things to say about kevin and the gang, its sad what happened to them but we need a replacement for their store , the few we have are older stores and set in their ways , they are not about to change so we as the public need to demand what we want .

in the end its us who provide the business that these stores get , if it works they are not about to fix it....why right??


its about time we had a place that WANTS to serve the city and WANTS to expand and become part of what this city has to offer.

we have a very large poulation, it is dominated by asian store owners(this is fact) all these stores run in a similiar way and all have stemmed from another lfs who still runs in this fashion.

calgary needs someone willing to change things and make them at par with the rest of the country.


ps.....i actually get along great with all the stores in the city , but fact is there are problems that n eed addressing sooner than later.

We need BATfishMAN!

Seriously though, I'm not sure if this one is a little bit of a runaway on passion of the moment (Denny does get fired up!)... don't believe there's anything so far as 'broken' here so much as opportunity for improvement... or direct feedback usable for any given incumbent to take back and raise their level of competitiveness. I would call this market saturated in terms of LFS count to population ratio. This town has money to spend when its economy is in the boom phase... but difficult on discretionary spending when it's flat.

Originally Posted by kien

On the issue with pricing, I wonder if it is partially a cultural thing? Of the 5 traditional stores that sell marine stuffs, 3 of them are owned and operated by asians and those are the ones that NEVER have prices on their tanks. It is in their nature to expect haggling. From their point of view, is there a point in putting a price up if someone is just going to come along and knock it down ? Also, I think that the cost on livestock fluctuates wildly from shipment to shipment. It is possible that a Blue Tang from one shipment will cost them $40 while on the next shipment will cost them $50. In the meantime, the Blue Tang from both shipments are still hanging out in the same tank. I'm guessing that the store owners kind of want to hide this from the customers. Anyway, I'm not a store owner so I'm just speculating :-)

And on the issue of Preferred Customer pricing. I don't see an issue with this. It is no different than any other business with a Preferred Customer system. I am a "Preferred Customer" with Avis Rent a Car so I get to the front of the line. "Preferred Frequent Flyer's" with Air Canada get special treatment (seat upgrades, meals, perferred boarding, etc). This is normal business practice.

I don't see the issue. There are 3 prices. 1) the asking/starting price. This can be posted or not posted. Whether it's marked on the tank, priced on the car window, advertised in the newspaper, or the price not written but you ask when viewing a house... it's the asking price. 2) there's the target price. The seller knows they're not always going to get the asking price, whether it's posted or not, it's the price at which the seller would be satisfied. 3) then there's the selling price... the actual price at transaction that is mutually agreed upon. It can be the asking price, it can be at or above the target price... but typically not below the target price as the seller would back out or wait for another buyer.

Net-net, starting price can be, but does not have to be posted. The market is efficient and will work either way. I believe one shop sells at such good prices that their turnover of livestock makes it a pain to price and update all the time... meanwhile the other two have spun off this one and have beliefs that this is the way to go... or likely a mix of laziness and opportunity.

PS-one place has several guys and only one of them has the authority to make the call on lowering the price. You have to know what is not negotiable (ie with the guy that just works there) and who you're negotiating with. I wonder if price discrepancies arose from this.

[kien]

It really boils down to perspective. As this thread suggests, we all have or own ideas of how we would run a fish store. What would seem to make complete sense to one of us can easily sound ridiculous to another. Consider this though, one store in particular that we all love to bitch about has been around for ages without changing their business practices one iota. I'm not trying to defend their practices here. I'm just sayin'. They have managed to stick around and have seen hobbyists come and go. They've out lived much nicer, posher, more updated, more connected to customers, more tech (online) savvy stores that have come and gone. Go figure

[jorjef]

Originally Posted by kien

It really boils down to perspective. As this thread suggests, we all have or own ideas of how we would run a fish store. What would seem to make complete sense to one of us can easily sound ridiculous to another. Consider this though, one store in particular that we all love to bitch about has been around for ages without changing their business practices one iota. I'm not trying to defend their practices here. I'm just sayin'. They have managed to stick around and have seen hobbyists come and go. They've out lived much nicer, posher, more updated, more connected to customers, more tech (online) savvy stores that have come and gone. Go figure

EXACTLY...I give this post the 'Wisers slow clap' award.

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by reefwars

if pricing is so hard for our lfs to do then why does lfs in other citys have no problems doing this??

like nick mentioned the stores in edmonton do this , so do the stores ive visited in ontario and in newfoundland....

thers no reason at all why stores elsewhere can put prices on stuff but ours cant....it has nothing to do with anything but being pure lazy or trying to grease extra coin out of customers....the stores here dont care and want you to have to ask for a price , becuase their price changes customer to customer.

I 1000% agree. Nothing is more annoying then the price changing from one staff quote to the next or for one customer to the next or from day to day especially on dry goods. Yes livestock prices will change week to week depending where the fish was shipped from but dry goods generally stay the same (price wise) and shouldn't be $12 on Monday and $7 Tuesday.

[Reef_Geek]

Originally Posted by kien

It really boils down to perspective. As this thread suggests, we all have or own ideas of how we would run a fish store. What would seem to make complete sense to one of us can easily sound ridiculous to another. Consider this though, one store in particular that we all love to bitch about has been around for ages without changing their business practices one iota. I'm not trying to defend their practices here. I'm just sayin'. They have managed to stick around and have seen hobbyists come and go. They've out lived much nicer, posher, more updated, more connected to customers, more tech (online) savvy stores that have come and gone. Go figure

That's very true. Longevity in face of change is a great measure of viability in business model. Could it be better? Probably. Is what they're doing working? Yes it is. Should they be complacent? Probably not. But I don't think they are complacent either... perhaps just a little too busy for their own good? Or, perhaps they should take some of their earnings and focus on growth vs the owner's Porsche Cayenne (does he have two?)? (Retained earnings vs paying out dividends)

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by jorjef

How long have these shops been in business? I'm guessing quite some time and are set in their ways and still in business. Not saying their systems are perfect but it's the way they want things. I feel your pain about being forced to shop at these places.... Regina has ONE store which I and many people in the city won't buy from unless absolutely necessary, be thankful you have 5 or what ever the count is at.

I made an hour and a half detour to hit a Bayside in Saskatoon on the way home this weekend. Tanks were marked with prices.. Picked up a nice Yellow Candy Hogfish

I admit not having tanks marked with prices is annoying but take it as an opportunity to turn the tables on the shop owner... Low ball an offer on a fish or coral and get the haggling started

these business have been in operation a long time , i know all of them personally and im even trying to help one store do better business, fact is he knows the condition but its scaled out of hand over the years.....ive seen pics from 10yrs ago and the store was immaculate.

im not saying these guys arnt nice people because they are , its not a personal thing its a business thing.



overall we have a bunch of stores ran and owned by hobbysts, we also have quite a few compared to most citys , one store copied the next when it did well and the other copied that one basically.....

red coral was on to their own thing that wasnt copied, they had improved some of the ideas talked about here and look what happened, even after they are closed these same customers give the highest praise.

red coral was able to expand into 3 stores and a new facility...why?? i mean he was getting business right so why expand if your already making good business?? because he wanted so much more for his store then just to do well , he wanted his city to have what it needed and imo still does need and he understood the opportunity that was given and took hold of it. kevin seen the opportunity and knew there was room to exand.

no other lfs in this city has a franchise do they??(not talking big box stores) they probably could have though but they dont have that expectation that drive to succeed....they have settled for what they have.

he asked his customers what they wanted and then provided it to them as best he could...it paid off.....its sad that issues happened lately forcing him to close but he had the right idea.



is there a place in this town to buy a yellow tang??....yes

would i prefer to buy this yellow tang at a store i like??...yes


theres the recipe for success right there....basically provide a product or service and make the customers WANT to come to you for business.



the pizza joint next to my house sells dirt cheap pizza....its gross but ive ordered it in a jam before...

theres a spot a bit of a ways, i pay a bit more but at least i can swallow it.....this place always gets my first order

[Coralgurl]

There is not a single Calgary store on this forum. I think there are some great points made but in all honesty, the stores are not asking for this feedback, so why would it matter what a small reefing population on CR has to say about how their stores are operated? There are other reefers in the City that are not on CR, maybe unaware it exists, don't care for the chit chat, whatever. Stores invest their own time and money to run a business. If it wasn't working, they wouldn't be in business, these stores are around and very rarely are there no customers in the stores (I guess depending on time of day). Pricing, cleanliness, ease of access to livestock/product. Great points that all could improve upon. The 2 big box stores could have better trained staff, cleaner systems, but the pricing is there, shelves and floors are generally clean. These 2 stores get bashed all the time for various issues.

Real estate is not cheap. I bet the 3 smaller stores don't care to expand, use the size of stores as best laid out and off they go. Is more real estate going to bring in more money, not likely. Would it make it more appealing to the customer, of course. Are they putting more money in their pockets, obviously. Take the location of the stores and it says alot, they are not located in overly desirable locations, the 2 on 16th ave are not bad, the one on 17th...hmm, but I know rents are alot cheaper than if they were located at South Trail Crossing or Crowfoot or Beacon Hill (sorry for those in the south, not overly familier with shopping centres your way). We all have dumped considerable money in this hobby, if I want an expanded store offering more space, ultimately, I will pay for this as the store needs to recoup this cost somehow - increased pricing on everything. I'm not good at battering on prices, never have been, never will be, so I guess I miss the "buddy pricing".

Regardless - its their business, their risk, their cash and their perogative how and when they operate. We do have a great selection here, take what you like and leave the rest.