Why the hell do people buy clown fish!??? Big problems with mine.

[Northernseacorals]

Originally Posted by pseudonym

Pretty sure it is the clowns.. they are the only things in there really that even have the equipment to hurt another fish. I don't have many fish at all. The two clowns, a blenny, two spotted mandarins and three dragon faced pipe fish and the juvenile tangs (These are VERY little tangs BTW. About the size of a small clown fish).

So...

Clowns 2
Blenny 1
Mandarins 2
Pipe Fish 3
Tangs 2
__
10

In a 29 gallon tank, I think it's your fault totally the fish went awol in the tank, you have; in my opinion overstocked the tank.

It's sad yes, and I think you have learned a valuable lesson, I hope you do not have anything else die mate.

[Nano]

+1

Yes its super frustrating, and terribly sad to lose your critters, but as stated when there is so much going on in such a small tank its bound to cause stress or aggression. IMO a tang should never go in a little tank not even as a juvie. Like said hopefully now you understand why you have to take very careful consideration in stocking. I myself have 4 fish in my 35g
2 ocellaris, 1 bangai,1 six line. I don't know if I would go more or not at this point, as the tank is so peaceful compared to when I had two other dwarf fish in there as well, plus bio load is less.

Good luck with the rest of the fish, I would think about maybe letting a few go and decreasing the stress on the tank mates.

[daniella3d]

wow, mine are sweetheart, all of them except the black and white. I have 3 black ice tank raised and they are very friendly with everything in the tank. Even when my copperband go right over their anemone they don't attack it or even react.

In my nano I have one black ice and one black and white and the black and white try to push me away with its tail when I touch near its bubble tip anemone but that's about it.

Nothing really aggressive.

[pseudonym]

Originally Posted by Nano

+1

Yes its super frustrating, and terribly sad to lose your critters, but as stated when there is so much going on in such a small tank its bound to cause stress or aggression. IMO a tang should never go in a little tank not even as a juvie. Like said hopefully now you understand why you have to take very careful consideration in stocking. I myself have 4 fish in my 35g
2 ocellaris, 1 bangai,1 six line. I don't know if I would go more or not at this point, as the tank is so peaceful compared to when I had two other dwarf fish in there as well, plus bio load is less.

Good luck with the rest of the fish, I would think about maybe letting a few go and decreasing the stress on the tank mates.

I completely disagree on the stocking issue. I would actually say you are over stocked myself. You have three fairly large fish that occupy the same water area as each other, mid level, open water. To me that is too much in one niche. I don't think stocking is such a simple thing. All my fish were choosen based not only on their size, but what they eat, temperament and where the live in the tank. None should have interacted with each other this much. Hell.. the clowns actually came OUT of their living space into the rock and chased after the tangs.

As for the tangs, I really really don't think you understand how small these little dudes are. You wouldn't want to put them in a large tank with other large fish. I don't think they would survive.

[Enigma]

Losing their nem could definately make them anxious and put them in a bad mood, I think. I thought about trying to protect my occ. clowns hosts from them (two clowns, each being hosted by side-by-side torch corals), but I was afraid of ****ing them off.

[pseudonym]

Originally Posted by Enigma

Losing their nem could definately make them anxious and put them in a bad mood, I think. I thought about trying to protect my occ. clowns hosts from them (two clowns, each being hosted by side-by-side torch corals), but I was afraid of ****ing them off.

I am thinking that has to be it. Before they lost their host, they were aggressive sure.. but just about their water area.. which is fine. All the fish in the tank live in different areas, so there shouldn't be much conflict generally. After their host was gone, the clowns started going into the rock rather than staying mid level, open water. That is when things started to go down hill fast. Before that.. things were pretty good! Very peaceful tank with no aggression after I took the wrasse out.

[Nano]

Originally Posted by pseudonym

I completely disagree on the stocking issue. I would actually say you are over stocked myself. You have three fairly large fish that occupy the same water area as each other, mid level, open water. To me that is too much in one niche. I don't think stocking is such a simple thing. All my fish were choosen based not only on their size, but what they eat, temperament and where the live in the tank. None should have interacted with each other this much. Hell.. the clowns actually came OUT of their living space into the rock and chased after the tangs.

As for the tangs, I really really don't think you understand how small these little dudes are. You wouldn't want to put them in a large tank with other large fish. I don't think they would survive.

Well if I'm overstocked, what does that make your tank? Just sayin. I mean to put tangs in a 29...

[pseudonym]

Originally Posted by Nano

Well if I'm overstocked, what does that make your tank? Just sayin. I mean to put tangs in a 29...

As I said, I don't think stocking is a simple question. It depends on where the fish lives and what it eats. You have three fish that live mid water. In a 30, to my mind that is too much. I divide the tank into sections. First, open water fish and in rock fish. Then I look at the level they live in: Top level, mid level, and then lower level (in a breeder I only look at mid and bottom. There are very few actual top layer marine fish for aquaria). Each level and area has to be looked at differently and needs to be stocked specifically for that area. You can have an overstocked area, and still have an understocked tank for instance.

After that you have to look at food, and where that food comes from. Does the fish have a utility role in the tank that reduces bio load? Does it complete for food from the tank with other fish or is it a decorative fish where it's primary nutrition comes from you feeding or does it mostly eat things inside the tank and only need supplemental feeding? All that is a stocking question that has to be answered after you figure out what area the fish lives in.

As I said, not a simple question. In your case I would say that you have your mid level, open water area over stocked, your mid level, in-rock area contains a wrasse and the rest have no stocking at all.

That is just my view on it of course.

[Nano]

K......

And you have a lawn mower blenny ripping around every where, clowns which basically protect their hosting spot, 2 tangs which in a tank that size will swim where ever they can to keep up with the tiny space they are crammed into, 3 pipefish, and 2 mandarins which are all pod eaters (so wouldn't that mean they are competing for food? Especially in such a small tank?)... I'm not going to argue this with you. My post count for the day is getting to high. Plain and simple I may be overstocked in my open water, but yet I have no problems in my tank aggression wise.. weird.. I was just trying to help like everyone else, but seems I said something you didnt like, maybe it was the tang remark? Anyways you didn't like it so you start pointing the finger at me.. not a good way to get help here.

Time for some wobbly pops :P

[pseudonym]

Originally Posted by Nano

K......

And you have a lawn mower blenny ripping around every where, clowns which basically protect their hosting spot, 2 tangs which in a tank that size will swim where ever they can to keep up with the tiny space they are crammed into, 3 pipefish, and 2 mandarins which are all pod eaters (so wouldn't that mean they are competing for food? Especially in such a small tank?)... I'm not going to argue this with you. My post count for the day is getting to high. Plain and simple I may be overstocked in my open water, but yet I have no problems in my tank aggression wise.. weird.. I was just trying to help like everyone else, but seems I said something you didnt like, maybe it was the tang remark? Anyways you didn't like it so you start pointing the finger at me.. not a good way to get help here.

Time for some wobbly pops :P

The tangs are very young so are currently in-rock, mid level fish. Clowns are generally mid level, open water fish and it wasn't until they lost their host that they started going out anywhere else. I am thinking they were exploring to find a new host. Now the pipefish and the mandarins! I knew you would bring those up. First, they live in VERY different areas of the tank and hunt in different areas. The pipefish are bottom, open water and the mandarins are bottom, in-rock. They do slightly compete, but not how you think. The mandarins like a larger size of pod than the pipefish. So they hunt different life stages of their food. In addition, I do supplemental feeding of artemia for both animals as well as the crinoids and dendro.

I realize your opinion is that the tank is overstocked and that is why I am having aggression issues. However, you fail to take into account the changing situation in the tank and the fact that it was very very peaceful until the clowns lost their host. None of that has to do with stocking. Quite simply, your explanation doesn't account for the entire situation.

Quite simply, I think you have an easy answer that you like to kick out. You like it because it is hard to refute and you think that you must be right because you don't have the same issues. That is specious logic my friend.

If it was a stocking issue, I would have had aggression issues FAR earlier than this. Sorry to burst your bubble. I think you look at stocking is a far too simplistic fashion myself. But, each to their own.

As I recall, I was asking for info, not help (other than how to catch the things). Stop thinking that you are handing out pearls to swine. I came here for a discussion, not to hear you lecture without challenge.